PDA

View Full Version : Etymology of your country?


Colin Wilson
07-21-2010, 12:23 PM
I thought that Niger, Nigeria (originally a name of a river) came from the Latin "nigra" (black) but wondered why a so north country as Italy will name a so distant river, but we have to remember that Ethiopia is a greek word meaning bruned face.
In fact Niger seems to come from a Semitic root "ngr" (spring, stream, oasis).
Türkiye came from Turkic "türk"=offspring and Arabic suffix "iye" as in suriye, djahiliye etc... (note that it's similar to the Latin suffix "ia"=>lislakh legacy??)
Lebanon cames from semitic "lbn" (white) [perhaps due to snowed mountains]

Of course we must be careful even when imminent linguists and historcial accounts are very satisfactory as folk etymology and word deformation is not that uncommon.

Mauretania etymology?? (note the similarity with moor)
Morocco/Maghreb (the first is probably berber and the second is Arabic means "place of west"=>semitic root 'rb=>europa,arab...)
Iberia??
France=>a germanic people
Algeria=>islands, coastal lands with mountains as a barrier[a parallel in the Turkic name balkan=>balkan peninsula] in Arabic it's a shortening of "djaza'ir beni mazghen" (lands of van imazighen)
Tunisia=>from the semitic godess tanith
Libya=>lb (heart) rb(west)??
Egypt/Misrayim=>first is Egyptian from kmt(black land) the second is Semitic (Arabic misrayin) a dual of misr=>opening 2 land??
Sudan=>Arabic for blackmen
Yemen=>Arabic for right and for south
Suriye/Sham=>first name from asur, second from Arabic sham=left and also north
Iraq=>either sumerian "uruk" or Semitic "'rq"=old, rooted??
Bahreyn=>Arabic 2 seas
Jordan=>Semitic yardan(descending water) from river jordan
Israel=>Semitic isra(traveling by night)[Arabic isra']+el(god)[Arabic ilah]
Palestine=>pelest (a name of a sea people)
Iran=>from semitic "ary" (comapnion) see Szemerenyi
India=>originally sind (before the s=>h shift)??
Asia=>from Akkadian "asu"=>east
Africa=>a name of an ancient Berber tribe (Africa was used first as a name for a region englobing east Algeria+Tunisia+western Libya)
Albania/Arvanet=>'rb??

AlexDelarge
07-21-2010, 12:35 PM
Portugal

O nome deriva de Portus e Calem o nome latino das duas localidades na foz do Douro, actualmente Porto e Vila Nova de Gaia, que dariam também o nome ao Condado Portucalense, o predecessor do Reino de Portugal. Outra origem do nome procede do latim “Portus”, “porto” e o nome do porto romano de Cale (hoje a cidade do Porto), situado no local da antiga colônia grega de “Calle” (“lindo” em grego). O nome composto “Portugal” deriva do nome do “Portus Cale”.

The name derives of Portus and Calem, the latin name of the two towns on the shores of river Douro, nowadays Oporto and Vila Nova de Gaia, which would also give the name to the Portucalense County, the predecessor of the Kingdom of Portugal. Another origin of the name comes from the latin "Portus", "port" and the name of the roman port of Cale (today's city of Oporto), which was located in the ancient greek colony of "Calle" ("beautiful" in greek). The composed name "Portugal" derives from "Portus Cale".

Colin Wilson
07-21-2010, 12:46 PM
I would add the 2 rivers sayhun and djayhun they seem to have a Semitic etymology (probably either by early Assyrian traders/Aramean christian missionaries or later muslim Arabs)
syh=>calm flowing water in Arabic not the similarity with gemanic sea (which does not have an ie etymology; pie for lake,sea is *mor)
djyh=>violent flowing water in Arabic

In the same times, those 2 rivers had other names (Greek,Iranic etc...) as syrdarya, amudarya, oxus,yaxartes.
I know that Darya=sea in Persian but what about "syr" and "amu" (could "syh" and "djyh" be calque translations of "syr" and "amu??")

Here below what Lisan al 'arab writes about syh and jyh

السَّيْحُ: الماءُ الظاهر الجاري على وجه الأَرض، وفي التهذيب: الماء الظاهر على وجه الأَرض، وجمعُه سُيُوح.
وقد ساحَ يَسيح سَيْحاً وسَيَحاناً إذا جرى على وجه الأَرض.
وماءٌ سَيْحٌ وغَيْلٌ إذا جرى على وجه الأَرض، وجمعه أَسْياح؛ ومنه قوله: لتسعة أَسياح وسيح العمر
وأَساحَ فلانٌ نهراً إذا أَجراه؛ قال الفرزدق: وكم للمسليمن أَسَحْتُ بَحْري، بإِذنِ اللهِ من نَهْرٍ ونَـهْـرِ
وفي حديث الزكاة: ما سُقِي بالسَّيْح ففيه العُشْرُ أَي الماء الجاري.
وفي حديث البراء في صفة بئرٍ: فلقد أُخْرِجَ أَحدُنا بثوب مخافة الغرق ثم ساحتْ أَي جرى ماؤها وفاضت. والسِّياحةُ: الذهاب في الأَرض للعبادة والتَّرَهُّب؛ وساح في الأَرض يَسِيح سِياحةً وسُيُوحاً وسَيْحاً وسَيَحاناً أَي ذهب؛ وفي الحديث: لا سِياحة في الإِسلام؛ أَراد بالسِّياحة مفارقةَ الأَمصار والذَّهابَ في الأَرض، وأَصله من سَيْح الماء الجاري؛ قال ابن الأَثير: أَراد مفارقةَ الأَمصار وسُكْنى البَراري وتَرْكَ شهود الجمعة والجماعات؛ قال: وقيل أَراد الذين يَسْعَوْنَ في الأَرض بالشرِّ والنميمة والإِفساد بين الناس؛ وقد ساح،ومنه المَسيحُ بن مريم، عليهما السلام؛ في بعض الأَقاويل: كان يذهب في الأَرض فأَينما أَدركه الليلُ صَفَّ قدميه وصلى حتى الصباح؛ فإِذا كان كذلك، فهو مفعول بمعنى فاعل. والمِسْياحُ الذي يَسِيحُ في الأَرض بالنميمة والشر؛ وفي حديث عليّ، رضي الله عنه: أُولئك أُمَّةُ الهُدى لَيْسُوا بالمَساييح ولا بالمَذاييع البُذُرِ؛ يعني الذين يَسِيحون في الأَرض بالنميمة والشر والإِفساد بين الناس، والمذاييع الذين يذيعون الفواحش. الأَزهري: قال شمر: المساييح ليس من السِّياحة ولكنه من التَّسْييح؛ والتَّسْييح في الثوب: أَن تكو وقوله تعالى: الحامدون السائحون؛ وقال تعالى: سائحاتٍ ثَيِّباتٍ وأَبكاراً؛ السائحون والسائحات: الصائمون؛ قال الزجاج: السائحون في قول أَهل التفسير واللغة جميعاً الصائمون، قال: ومذهب الحسن أَنهم الذين يصومون الفرض؛ وقيل: إِنهم الذين يُدِيمونَ الصيامَ، وهو مما في الكتب الأُوَل؛ قيل: إِنما قيل للصائم سائح لأَن الذي يسيح متعبداً يسيح ولا زاد معه إِنما يَطْعَمُ إذا وجد الزاد. والصائم لا يَطْعَمُ أَيضاً فلشبهه به سمي سائحاً؛ وسئل ابن عباس وابن مسعود عن السائحين، فقال: هم الصائمون.
والسَّيْح: المِسْحُ المُخَطَّطُ؛ وقيل:السَّيْح مِسْح مخطط يُسْتَتَرُ به ويُفْتَرَش؛ وقيل: السَّيْحُ العَباءَة المُخَطَّطة؛ وقيل: هو ضرب من البُرود، وجمعه سُيُوحٌ؛ أَنشد ابن الأَعرابي: وإِني، وإِن تُنْكَرْ سُيُوحُ عَباءَتي، شِفاءُ الدَّقَى يا بِكْرَ أُمِّ تَـمـيمِ
الدَّقَى: البَشَمُ وعَباءَةُ مُسَيَّحة؛ قال الطِّرِمَّاحُ: من الهَوْذِ كَدْراءُ السَّراةِ، ولونُهـا خَصِيفٌ، كَلَوْنِ الحَيْقُطانِ المُسَيَّحِ
ابن بري: الهَوْذُ جمع هَوْذَةٍ، وهي القَطاة. والسَّراة: الظهر.
والخَصِيفُ: الذي يجمع لونين بياضاً وسواداً.
وبُرْدٌ مُسَيَّح ومُسَيَّر: مخطط؛ ابن شميل: المُسَيَّحُ من العَباء الذي فيه جُدَدٌ: واحدة بيضاء، وأُخرى سوداء ليست بشديدة السواد؛ وكل عباءَة سَيْحٌ ومُسَيَّحَة، ويقال: نِعْمَ السيْحُ هذا، وما لم يكن جُدَد فإِنما هو كساء وليس بعباء. وجَرادٌ مُسَيَّحٌ: مخطط أَيضاً؛ قال الأَصمعي: المُسَيَّح من الجراد الذي فيه خطوط سود وصفر وبيض، واحدته مُسَيَّحة؛ قال الأَصمعي: إذا صار في الجراد خُطوط سُودٌ وصُفْر وبيض، فهو المُسَيَّحُ، فإِذا بدا حَجْمُ جَناحهْ فذلك الكِتْفانُ لأَنه حينئذ يُكَتِّفُ المَشْيَ، قال: فإِذا ظهرت أَجنحته وصار أَحمر إِلى الغُبْرة، فهو الغَوْغاءُ، الواحدة غَوْغاءَة، وذلك حين يموجُ بعضه في بعض ولا يتوجه جهةً واحدةً، قال الأَزهري: هذا في رواية عمرو بن بَحْرٍ. الأَزهري: والمُسَيَّحُ من الطريق المُبَيَّنُ شَرَكُه، وإِنما سَيَّحَه كثرةُ شَرَكه، شُبِّه بالعباءة المُسَيَّح؛ ويقال للحمار الوحشيّ: مُسَيَّحٌ لجُدَّة تفصل بين بطنه وجنبه؛ قال ذو الرمة: تَهاوَى بيَ الظَّلْماءَ حَرْفٌ، كأَنها مُسَيَّحُ أَطرافِ العَجيزة أَسْحَـمُ
يعني حماراً وحشيّاً شبه الناقة به.
وانْساحَ الثوبُ وغيره: تشقق، وكذلك الصُّبْحُ. وفي حديث الغار: فانْساحت الصخرة أَي اندفعت واتسعت؛ ومنه ساحَة الدار، ويروى بالخاء وبالصاد.
وانْساحَ البطنُ: اتسع ودنا من السمن. التهذيب، ابن الأَعرابي: يقال للأَتان قد انْساحَ بطنها وانْدالَ انْسِياحاً إذا ضَخُمَ ودنا من الأَرض.
وانْساحَ بالُه أَي اتسع؛ وقال: أُمَنِّي ضميرَالنَّفْسِ إِياك، بعدما يُراجِعُني بَثِّي، فَيَنْساحُ بالُهـا
ويقال: أَساحَ الفَرَسُ ذكَره وأَسابه إذا أَخرجه من قُنْبِه.
قال خليفة الحُصَيْني: ويقال سَيَّبه وسَيَّحه مثله.
وساح الظِّلُّ أَي فاءَ.
وسَيْحٌ: ماء لبني حَسَّان بن عَوْف؛ وقال: يا حَبَّذا سَيْحٌ إذا الصَّيْفُ الْتَهَبْ
وسَيْحانُ: نهر بالشام؛ وفي الحديث ذكْرُ سَيْحانَ، هو نهر بالعَواصِم من أَرض المَصِيصَةِ قريباً من طَرَسُوسَ، ويذكر مع جَيْحانَ.
وساحِينُ: نهر بالبصرة.
وسَيْحُونُ: نهر بالهند.
جاحَهم الله جَيْحاً وجائحةً: دهاهم، مصدر كالعاقبة. وجَيْحان: واد معروف؛ وفي الحديث ذكر سَيْحان وجَيْحان، وهما نهران بالعواصم عند أَرض المَصِيصَةِ وطَرَسُوس.

google translation
Runoff: water apparent on the face of this earth, and polite: water appearing on the face of the earth, and collected Siouh.
The arena Ichrist Christa and Christana if they are on earth.
And water space and if Gail was on earth, and collected Osiah; and from the saying: nine Osiah and melt down old
Osah person and rivers if conducted; Farazdak said: For how many nautical Mslemen Osan, God willing, from the river and the river
In an interview with Zakat: What is subject to the ten watering Balseh any running water.
In an interview in the character of Bara well: he took out one of us Gown for fear of drowning, and any Saan were discharged and flowed. And tourism: go in the land of worship and the probationer; the arena on earth Ichrist Tourism Siouha and Christa and Christana any gold; In modern: No Tourism in Islam; wanted tourism paradox of the regions and go in the ground, originally from Saih running water; said I'm the air: he wanted to contrast the regions and residential Prairie and left witnesses Friday and groups; said: It was said he wanted those who seek the land of evil and gossip and corruption among the people; The arena, of which Jesus the son of Mary, peace be upon them; in some gossip: it was going to land wherever benighted row feet and prayed until morning; If so , is the effect of the sense of an actor. Cah Ichrist and that gossip in the land and evil; In an interview with Ali, may Allah be pleased with him: those nation-Huda are not Palmsaiih Palmmaiie sowing; mean who on earth Ichriston gossip and evil and corruption among the people, and radios who broadcast indecency. Azhari: said Shamar: Almsaiih not from tourism but it Aeltsiih; and Aeltsiih in the garment: the TCO and says: praise Him tourists; and the Almighty said: Tourists either widows or divorced and virgins; tourists and tourists: those who fast; said glass: Tourists in the words of the people of interpretation and language all those who fast, "said : and the doctrine of good assumption that they are those who fast; was told: "They who perpetuate the fast, which is, in the books I; said: But it was for the fasting tourists because you Ichrist Ichrist worship, but not with increased feed intake if any. The fasting person is not fed by the Vlcbha also called tourists; asked Ibn Abbas and Ibn Massoud for tourists, said: "They are those who fast.
And run-off: Surveying the scheme; and said: runoff survey scheme will shelter him, and sat; was: run-off cloak planned; was: is hitting the ice, and collected Siouh; sang old Bedouin: I am, and deny Siouh Aabati, Healing, Dokki, O virgin mother Tamim
Dokki: Alepeshm cloak his anointed; said Trmah: From Alhoz Kdrae Aserap, Ksif, color, color Alehiqtan Christ
I'm Berri: Alhoz Hozp collection, which is here as. And Aserap: pm.
And Al_khasev: which combines the two colors whiter and blacker.
And cold Christ and Messier: Schema;'m Schimmel: Christ Alaaba in which the new: one white, the other black is not conditions as black; all mantle melt down and his Messiah, and said: Yes runoff that, unless renewed, for he is clothing and not Baba. And locust Christ: also planned; said Asma'i: Christ of locusts in which the lines are black, yellow and white, and Ahdth Messiah; said Asma'i: If you became the Locust lines of black, yellow and white, he was the Messiah, if it seemed the size wing That shoulders because then stop walking, he said: If the wings and appeared to become a red crushed stone, it is the mob, one Goghaep, so while some of Limoges in some head and one hand, Al-Azhari said: this novel Amr ibn Bahr. Azhari: The Christ of the road indicated the company, but Christh large company, semi-cloak of Christ; and said to the donkey brutal: the novelty of Christ between his stomach and his side; a Ramma said: collapsed dark my character, as if Christ parties ass raven
Means zebra semi-camel tags.
Ansah and clothes and other: cracking, as well as waxing. In an interview with Laurel: Vansaan the rock burst and expanded; and from the courtyard, and tells Balha and Balsad.
Ansah and abdomen: expanded and DNA from the ghee. Discipline, the son of a Bedouin: It is said of the colt may Ansah stomach and Andal Anciaha if a large and DNA from the ground.
Ansah and guessed any expanded; and said: Beware of security Dmiralnevs, after return to me my grief, Vensah mind
Said: Osah Persians said if its causes him out of the Qnnbh.
Khalifa Al Hussaini: It is said Sepah and Christh like him.
The arena shadow any fulfillment.
The melt down: water for the children of Hassan ibn Awf; said: I would love to melt down if the summer flame
And Ceyhan: River Baham; in modern MALE Ceyhan, the river is the land of capitals Almesesp near Tarsus, and states with Ceyhan.
And Sahin: River Basra.
And Sihon: River in India.
Jaham God Geha and pandemic: Dhahm, Exporter Kaqubp. And Jihan: Wade unknown; stated in the hadeeth, and Ceyhan Ceyhan, namely, when the land of two rivers with capitals Almesesp and Tarsus.

Colin Wilson
07-21-2010, 01:10 PM
Could the origin of the mountains name "zagros" connected to Akkadian zaqaru(to be high)seen in the name ziggurat (hig)!?

The Hypocrite
07-21-2010, 01:29 PM
Brasil/Brazil comes from brazilwood, the first commodity Brazil exported to Portugal.

In Portuguese brazilwood is called pau-brasil, with the word brasil commonly given the etymology "red like an ember", formed from Latin brasa ("ember") and the suffix -il (from -iculum or -ilium).

When Portuguese explorers found these trees of a deep red hue inside on the coast of South America, they used the name pau-brasil to describe them. Pau is Portuguese for "stick", and brasil is said to have come from brasa, Portuguese for "ember". This name had been earlier used to describe a different species of tree which was found in Asia and other places and which also produced red dye; but the South American trees soon became the better source of red dye. Brazilwood trees were such a large part of the exports and economy of the land that the country which sprang up in that part of the world took its name from them and is now called Brazil.

RavenMist
07-21-2010, 01:30 PM
India=>originally sind (before the s=>h shift)??



The origins of the name "India" have their roots in the river Sindhu. The river essentially marked the boundary between "Persia" and "India" and the Persians began referring to the territory as Hind (after the river, which they called the Hindu). In Greek and Latin, this became the Indus and Hind became India in all Western texts from then onwards.

Indians don't really call the land "India". That is a foreign term. The proper name for India is "Bharat" or "Bharatvarsha"---the land of King Bharat (and his descendants). India is also referred to as "Aryavarta"---land of the Aryans---in the Vedas and other old religious texts.

RavenMist
07-21-2010, 01:40 PM
The Americas are supposed to be named after an Italian guy named Amerigo Vespucci who supposedly was the first to realize that the Americas were not the fabled Indies (at least that's what i learned in 3rd grade). The United States of America was so named because it was a union of states in North America.

Colin Wilson
07-21-2010, 02:03 PM
I must add that I posted the lisan al arab text without reading it, now when I read it I have 2 remarks:
The author speaks of 4 sayhan/sayhun rivers (in central Asia, India, Iraq and Anatolia)[though I'm aware of the Anatolian and Central Asian one]!
He connects *syh with mesih (messiah) the Arabic epithet of Jesus as Jesus flowed ie traveled amongst peoples, a derivative of this root can be seen in Arabic siyaha=tourism; the m in mesih is a common Semitic prefix!

pinguin
07-21-2010, 02:49 PM
Chile comes from the Quechua (Incas) word for cold: Chiri.
The meaning is simply "cold or freezing country". We have the freezing Andes montains just beside, so no wonder.

AcadianDriftwood
07-21-2010, 02:55 PM
Canada comes from the Iroquois word "kanata" which means "village".

I'm from Nova Scotia, which is Latin for "New Scotland", although I currently live and work on Prince Edward Island (named after Prince Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward,_Duke_of_Kent_and_Strathearn) but this place actually has three names: Île St.-Jean (French) and Abegweit (Mi'kmaq, means "Cradle of the Waves")... the English one is most known.

Oinakos Growion
07-21-2010, 02:57 PM
the name of the roman port of Cale (today's city of Oporto), which was located in the ancient greek colony of "Calle" ("beautiful" in greek)
I'm afraid not ;)
The alleged presence of Greek traders in the northern Iberian coasts has never been validated. Legend also says that the Galician city of Pontevedra was founded by Greeks, by Teucer himself nonetheless, which is not true. Greeks did trade with us up here for metals but it was done using intermediaries and maybe (maybe) sporadic visits (hence why there's some few Greek objects here and there). Settlement... I very much doubt it...
The "Calle" root is in fact of Celtic origin, and it's explained by the presence of the tribe of the Callaeci (worshippers of Cailleach, a Celtic goddess; Cailleach in modern Irish means "witch"). The whole region was named Callaecia (later Gallaecia province) by the Romans after they encountered that tribe there. In time the northern part became what today is known as simply "Galicia" and the south "Portus-Cale" (the port of the Callaecians), hence Portugal :)

Article in Galician-Portuguese summarising this:
http://www.portugaliza.net/numero0/boletim00nova05.htm

Short entry on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cailleach#Galicia

AlexDelarge
07-21-2010, 03:11 PM
I'm afraid not ;)
The alleged presence of Greek traders in the northern Iberian coasts has never been validated. Legend also says that the Galician city of Pontevedra was founded by Greeks, by Teucer himself nonetheless, which is not true. Greeks did trade with us up here for metals but it was done using intermediaries and maybe (maybe) sporadic visits (hence why there's some few Greek objects here and there). Settlement... I very much doubt it...
The "Calle" root is in fact of Celtic origin, and it's explained by the presence of the tribe of the Callaeci (worshippers of Cailleach, a Celtic goddess; Cailleach in modern Irish means "witch"). The whole region was named Callaecia (later Gallaecia province) by the Romans after they encountered that tribe there. In time the northern part became what today is know as simply "Galicia" and the south "Portus-Cale" (the port of the Callaecians), hence Portugal :)

Article in Galician-Portuguese summarising this:
http://www.portugaliza.net/numero0/boletim00nova05.htm

Short entry on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cailleach#Galicia

Well, that wasn't my opinion. I just copied it from a wikipedia entry. :)
The romans had a port city named Cale though, didn't they? It surely comes from there. As to why it had that name maybe what you wrote makes sense.

Oinakos Growion
07-21-2010, 03:17 PM
Once again some people like to cut all possible links to a possible "Callaico" past ;) hehe
Nah, it's commonly accepted that the "Cal/Gal" in the port of the "Calle" and the "Callaecia" (embracing northern Portugal as you know) is of Celtic origin. In this case the name "Portugal" is a mixed Latin-Celtic name, where "Galiza/Galicia" would mean, from an etymological point of view and as seen through the eyes of the Romans, "land of the worshippers of Cailleach".

Batayllero
07-21-2010, 06:17 PM
The origin of Catalonia (Catalunya) is obscure.

Attested documents:The first attested reference is found in the oath by men from Carcassone to Ramon Berenguer III of Barcelona (1107 or 1112), copied in the Liber feudorum maior, where there is a Geral de Cataluign and also a Raimundi Catalan and two Arnal Catalan. In the Liber Maiolichinus, the name of catalanenses is used as an opposition to that of gots (referred to Occitans) and Ramon Berenguer III is called catalanicus heros, rector catalanicus, dux catalanensis, and the name of Catalania is mentioned. From the middle of the 12th century onwards (in 1149 Cataloniae is compared in a document with Aragon and Provence), the use of both the placename and the demonym becomes general in its own territory and in neighbour Christian realms. During the first times, the name of Catalunya is linked to the territory ruled by the count of Barcelona, roughly what is usually known as Old Catalunya (Catalunya Vella), but in the 13th century, the name of Catalunya is already used to design the whole territory between the Cinca river, the march of Tortosa and the lake of Salses, in opposition to that of the kingdom of Aragon.
Etymological theories:Legendary: It would derive from the legend of the father of the country, Otger Cataló, a captain from France (or maybe lord of the castle of Cataló).
http://ganguil.blogia.com/upload/20100217225925-otger-1.png

Theory 1:
In the 16th century, the name is related by some authors to the Campi Catalaunici (the Catalaunian Plains) and the Catalauni, Celtic tribe living around Châlons-sur-Marne (Catalaunum), in Champagne. A theory reconsidered in the 20th century by Bonfante, difficult to accept from a historic point of view, but could have some documentary support.

Theory 2 and 3:
Paul Aebischer defended its derivation from Montecatanus (Latin form of Montcada, a mountain and castle near Barcelona), through the adjective montecatananus or montecatalanus. Another theory says it could derive from a demonym, castellani, from where castlans and then catlans, given the abundance of castles in the area, as in Castile.
The two theories are difficult to accept from a linguistic prospect.

Theory 4:
A theory announced by Schopf in 1919 and defended by the great etymologist Joan Coromines derives the demonym catalani (a form very spread in old times) from a metathesis of lacetani (Greek laketanoi), an Iberian tribe living in the hinterland of Barcelona. The name would have entered the language via educated transmission, to design the Catalans, and catelani would have given way to Catalonia (following the model of Basconia).

Other theories:
There are other theories, such as Joan Vernet's, who identifies as a possible first attested name of Catalunya the place mentioned as Talunya in the work Tarsi al-akhbar by a Muslim historian from the 11th century, Al 'Udri. That place, Talunya or Taluniya, near Monzón, would have given the name of Catalunya by adding the prefix ca- (contraction of cala- 'castle', frequent in Arabic toponimy).
Note: I took these data from the Gran Enciclopèdia Catalana. I'm aware there are still other theories around, but most of them are frankly quite weird.

Satyr
07-21-2010, 06:36 PM
The origin of Catalonia (Catalunya) is obscure.

But the origin of Batalonia (Bataylunya) is limpid.

sturmgewehr
07-21-2010, 07:08 PM
ok let's start with Antiquity.

Albania comes from the Latin word ALB = White, Albania internationally is recognized as Albania but we the native peopel of Albania never refer to our country as Albania, we refer to our country as SHQIPERIA, the word ALBANIA was imposed to us by the Romans, and the word Albanian is as foreign to Albanians as the word Bangladesh.

Albanians are the descendants of the Illyro-Thracian tribes that have been inhabiting those regions since the beginning of the civilizations.

In the 2nd century AD, Ptolemy, the geographer and astronomer from Alexandria, drafted a map that shows the city of Albanopolis (Greek,"Ἀλβανόπολις") (located Northeast of Durrës). Ptolemy also mentions the Illyrian tribe named Albanoi, who lived around this city.
In History written in 1079-1080, the Byzantine historian Michael Attaliates referred to the Albanoi as having taken part in a revolt against Constantinople in 1043 and to the Arbanitai as subjects of the duke of Dyrrachium. It is disputed, however, whether that refers to Albanians in an ethnic sense. The first reference to a lingua albanesca dates to the later 13th century (around 1285)

The Albanians are and have been referred to by other terms as well. Some of them are:

Arbër, Arbën, Arbëreshë; the old native term denoting ancient and medieval Albanians and sharing the same root with the latter. At the time the country was called Arbër (Gheg: Arbën) and Arbëria (Gheg: Arbënia). This term is still used for the Albanians that migrated to Italy during the Middle Ages.

Arnauts (ارناود); old term used mainly from Turks and by extension by European authors during the Ottoman Empire. A derivate of the Turkish Arvanid (اروانيد), which derives from the Greek Arvanites.

Skipetars; the historical rendering of the ethnonym Shqiptar (or Shqyptar by French, Austrian and German authors) in use from the 18th century (but probably earlier) to the present, the literal translation of which is subject of the eagle.


The terms Arbër, Arbën, Arbëreshë have been studied and analysed deeply, many experts think that these words come from the word Arë which means Land and bën which is the suffix that makes the word Arë an Adjective the word Arbër means THE PEOPLE OF THE LAND.

Anyways later after the 15th Century Albanians started referring to themselves as SHQIPTARS this comes from the word SHQIPE which means EAGLE, SHQIPTAR same like arbER is an Adjective, Shqiptar means THE PEOPLE OF THE EAGLE or THE SON'S OF THE EAGLE, this is because during the medieval times while Albanians were fighting against the ottoman occupations our greatest leader SKENDERBEG united Albanians under the flag of the double headed eagle, since then Albanians have preserved that flag and made their official flag in honor of our greatest hero GJERGJ KASTRIOTI ( Skenderbeg ).

Albanians for the first time in History were united under the double headed eagle on the red background and since then we r the Son's of the eagle.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Flag_of_Albania.svg

bandini
07-21-2010, 07:34 PM
Italia > Land of cattle, so basically it's not surpirising you have a nation of narrow-minded peasants.

Being in an ethnonationalist/ preservationalist mood, here you go with my Ancestral Racial Homeland:

Sannio > Samnium (Lat.) > Safinim (Oscan)

I can feel in my blood the legacy of this illustrious stirpes of Indo-European lifelong warriors, in fact everyday I have to fight several cravings (from cigarettes to strong alcohol to pork etc.)

My city of birth and discontinuous residence is Napoli > Neapolis (Greek for New City) aka Parthenope, one of the oldest shitholes in the world, ripping off people from 8th century BC, as one can see from wikipedia.

Satyr
07-21-2010, 07:41 PM
My city of birth and discontinuous residence is Napoli > Neapolis (Greek for New City) aka Parthenope, one of the oldest shitholes in the world, ripping off people from 8th century BC, as one can see from wikipedia.

« There's a difference between Northern Italians, who live in the North, and Southern Italians, who die in the South »

Pierre Desproges

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Pierre_Desproges17.jpg/800px-Pierre_Desproges17.jpg

Graham
07-21-2010, 07:49 PM
Scotland

The name of Scotland is derived from the Latin Scoti, the term applied to Gaels. The origin of the word Scoti (or Scotti) is uncertain. It is found in Latin texts from the fourth century describing a tribe which sailed from Ireland to raid Roman Britain. It came to be applied to all the Gaels. It is not believed that any Gaelic groups called themselves Scoti in ancient times, except when writing in Latin.

There's the mythology of scota aswell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scota


Alba

Alba is the Scottish Gaelic name for Scotland. It is cognate to Alba in Irish and Nalbin in Manx, the other Goidelic Insular Celtic language, as well as similar words in the Brythonic Insular Celtic languages of Cornish (Alban) and Welsh (Yr Alban) also meaning Scotland.

The term first appears in classical texts as Ἀλβίων or Ἀλουΐων (in Ptolemy's writings), later as Albion in Latin documents. Historically, the term refers to Britain as a whole and is ultimately based on the Indo-European root for "white". Roughly by the ninth or tenth centuries, it came to be used in the form of Alba (dative Albainn, genitive Albann, now obsolete) by Gaelic speakers as the name given to the kingdoms of the Picts north of the Firth of Forth and the Firth of Clyde, traditionally regarded to have been conquered by Kenneth MacAlpin. The region Breadalbane (Bràghad Albainn, the upper part of "Alba") takes its name from it as well.

As time passed that kingdom incorporated others to the southern territories. It became re-Latinized in the High Medieval period as "Albania" (it is unclear whether it may ultimately share the same etymon as the modern Albania). This latter word was employed mainly by Celto-Latin writers, and most famously by Geoffrey of Monmouth. It was this word which passed into Middle English as Albany, although very rarely was this used for the Kingdom of Scotland, but rather for the notional Duchy of Albany. From the latter the capital of the U.S. state of New York, Albany, takes its name.

Heraus
07-21-2010, 08:55 PM
France : the Franks had the great idea to avoid cacophony with "Gaule".

Gascony : from Vasconia, I fear that we share much with our hated Basque neighbours.
Vasconia > Gasconia (Germanic phonetic influence : see vespa > guêpe) > Gascogne in French

Béarn : unknown origin, from the ancient Aquitanian name of Lescar, former capital of Béarn : Beneharnum
Beneharn(um) > Beeharn (intervocalic n falls in Gascon) > Béarn

jam
07-21-2010, 09:40 PM
My country:
Danmark - land (mark) of the Danes. The origin is somewhat unknown, the only known sources claim that it is named after a "King" Dan who united the Danes. However, it could also be that he was just named after the tribe, IE king of Danes.
So, it's somewhat similar to the name England, France, Sweden, the name is the name of a Tribe (and perhaps originally a tribal leader).

Ps. In Danish "Danes" are called "Daner". We actually never call ourselved as "Daner", which is archaic, we say "Dansker", which is the same as "ethnic Danish", athough we use the term "Dansk", when we describe something which is Danish, and which is not an ethnic Danish person.

Colin Wilson
07-22-2010, 11:13 AM
Could "Albania" and "Lebanon" came from the same (lislakh??) root, as both means "white"??
Keeping in mind that the suffixed "n", is also a common lislakh suffixe who denotes passivity.
From wiki
infaʻala gives a passive meaning. Eg: kasara "break" and inkasara "be broken".

Starbuck
07-22-2010, 11:34 AM
Chile comes from the Quechua (Incas) word for cold: Chiri.
The meaning is simply "cold or freezing country". We have the freezing Andes montains just beside, so no wonder.

Not only that, but you have a cold ocean current as well :

It is the most productive marine ecosystem in the world, as well as the largest upwelling system. The Humboldt’s high rates of primary and secondary productivity support the world’s largest fisheries. Approximately 18-20% of the world’s fish catch comes from the Humboldt Current LME.

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humboldt_Current)

sturmgewehr
07-22-2010, 11:43 AM
Could "Albania" and "Lebanon" came from the same (lislakh??) root, as both means "white"??
Keeping in mind that the suffixed "n", is also a common lislakh suffixe who denotes passivity.
From wiki

I heard before that the word ALB could be of Semitic origin like in LBN, Lebanon something like that, the root is LBN and in Arabic or semitic languages it means white or milk or something like that, thye say Latins adopted this word from the semitic speaking groups cuz the right word for white in Latin is LEUKOS something like LEUKOCYTE ( white blood cells ).

But anyways, we the Albanians never refer to ourselves as Albanians and as I mentioned before the word ALBANIAN TO US IS AS FOREIGN AS BANGLADESH.

The word Albanian was imposed to us by the Romans when they conquered south Illyria and divided the region into principalities etc etc....

Starbuck
07-22-2010, 12:14 PM
The name for the United States of America has already been explored, so I guess I can give a few words about the states, from a Cherokee perspective.

The Anitsalagi from out west, so I hear anyway, still call the western part of North Carolina, tsalaguwetiyi (old Cherokee place ; tsalagi- "Cherokee" + -uweti- "old" + -yi [locative]). If you're interested, you can see the names of the fifty states here (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:AUFdEXUQJ7sJ:www.ani-kutani.com/US_States_in_Cherokee.pdf+tetsas+cherokee&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjTmssxw5uXwC9Z18E4ddH0gzehRbUzxKwHZWPw Q1vuU6fGtwPQNOEik57C-4kAobYjLVNDjTv867INRBYWTHQjQblvczTL1k6QEQOVP2XkajJ 2BHqK0hzr8vYbsWVGPTtimYuK&sig=AHIEtbRhSjeStslUo6NHs6In0L3CgP4upA), in Cherokee language. As for Cherokee Nation, one way to say this would be tsalagi ayiti.

pinguin
07-22-2010, 12:53 PM
Not only that, but you have a cold ocean current as well :


Yes. You have to be couragious to swim in the ocean in some beaches of my country. But even more to cross the Andes mountains at winter time, with temperatures that compares to Canada.
And we are in a cold sesion now. In here we have -5 degrees below with some regularity now and in Southern Chile has reached -20 degrees C below. In the highlands of Bolivia has reached -25 degrees C, and there have been a hundred victims in several countries of South America, particularly among homeless people.

So, the name "chiri"(cold) makes sense.

Colin Wilson
07-22-2010, 12:53 PM
According to Lisan al Arab, lbn can means sperm, milk, white and also other secondary meanings.
afaik leuko is the Greek word (not Latin) for white:
According to etymonline
light (n.)
"brightness," O.E. leht, earlier leoht, from W.Gmc. *leukhtam (cf. O.Fris. liacht, M.Du. lucht, Ger. Licht), from PIE *leuk- "light, brightness" (cf. Skt. rocate "shines;" Arm. lois "light," lusin "moon;" Gk. leukos "bright, shining, white;" L. lucere "to shine," lux "light," lucidus "clear;" O.C.S. luci "light;" Lith. laukas "pale;" Welsh llug "gleam, glimmer;" O.Ir. loche "lightning," luchair "brightness;" Hittite lukezi "is bright"). The -gh- was an Anglo-Fr. scribal attempt to render the O.E. hard -h- sound, which has since disappeared. The figurative spiritual sense was in O.E.; the sense of "mental illumination" is first recorded mid-15c. Meaning "something used for igniting" is from 1680s. The related verb is from O.E. lyhtan (cf. O.S. liohtian, Ger. leuchten, Goth. liuhtjan).
I've read in the thrid volume of Black Athena (and also it exists on nostratic dictionnary of Dolgopolsky) that *lk is a common nostratic root.
http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=yFLm_M_OdK4C&pg=PA97&lpg=PA97&dq=bernal+light+luk+afro+asiatic&source=bl&ots=_-nwCrnNhY&sig=LERDR6iG6OpwzUGbSrWfm_Ycj9o&hl=tr&ei=jjxITOiUNoiX4gahnOHcDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

pie *leuk, proto nostratic law/lew (shine), paa lawh?? (the author only wrote "they refer to afro-asiatic forms with final -h, but in lisan al arab there is the root lwH which means fire, light, white... see below)
The colored parts are the ones speaking about lwH (note that H is distinct from h) meaning white.


وقِدْحٌ مُلَوَّحٌ: مُغَيَّر بالنار، وكذلك نَصْلٌ مُلَوَّحٌ. وكل ما غَيَّرته النارُ، فقد لَوَّحَته، ولَوَّحَته الشمسُ كذلك غَيَّرته وسَفَعَتْ وجْهَه. وقال الزجاج في قوله عز وجل: لَوَّاحةٌ للبشر أَي تُحْرِقُ الجلدَ حتى تُسَوِّده؛ يقال: لاحَه ولَوَّحَه. ولَوَّحْتُ الشيءَ بالنار: أَحميته؛ قال جِرانُ العَوْدِ واسمه عامر بن الحرث: عُقابٌ عَقَنْباةٌ، كَأَنَّ وَظِـيفَـهـا وخُرْطُومَها الأَعْلى، بنارٍ مُلَوَّحُ
وفي حديث سَطِيح في رواية: يَلوحُه في اللُّوحِ بَوْغاءُ الدِّمَنْ اللُّوحُ: الهواء. ولاحَه يَلوحُه: غَيَّرَ لونَه. والمِلْواحُ: الضامر، وكذلك الأُنثى؛ قال: من كلِّ شَقَّاءِ النَّسا مِلْواحِ
وامرأَة مِلْواحٌ ودابة مِلواحٌ إذا كان سريع الضُّمْر. ابن الأَثير: وفي أَسماء دوابه، عليه السلام، أَن اسم فرسه مُلاوِحٌ، وهو الضامر الذي لا يَسْمَنُ، والسريع العطش والعظيمُ الأَلواح، وهو المِلْواحُ أَيضاً.
واللَّوْحُ: النظرة كاللَّمْحة. ولاحَه ببصره لَوْحةً: رآه ثم خَفِيَ عنه؛ وأَنشد: وهل تَنْفَعَنِّي لَوْحةٌ لو أَلُوحُها?
ولُحْتُ إِلى كذا أَلُوحُ إذا نظرت إِلى نار بعيدة؛ قال الأَعشى: لَعَمْري لقد لاحتَ عُيُونٌ كثيرةٌ إِلى ضَوْءِ نارٍ، في يَفاعٍ تُحَرَّقُ
أَي نَظَرَتْ.
ولاحَ البرقُ يَلوح لَوْحاً ولُؤُوحاً ولَوَحاناً أَي لمَحَ. وأَلاحَ البرقُ: أَوْمَضَ، فهو مُلِيح؛ وقيل: أَلاحَ ما حَوْله؛ قال أَبو ذؤيب: رأَيتُ، وأَهْلي بِوادِي الرَّجِي عِ من نَحْوِ قَيْلَةَ، بَرْقاً مُلِيحا
وأَلاحَ بالسيف ولَوَّحَ: لمَعَ به وحَرَّكه. ولاحَ النجمُ: بدا.
وأَلاحَ: أَضاء وبدا وتلأْلأَ واتسع ضَوْءُه؛ قال المُتَلَمِّسُ: وقد أَلاحَ سُهَيْلٌ، بعدما هَجَعُوا كأَنه ضَرَمٌ، بالكَفِّ، مَقْبُوسُ
ابن السكيت: يقال لاحَ سُهَيْلُ إذا بدا، وأَلاحَ إذا تلأْلأَ؛ ويقال: لاحَ السيفُ والبرقُ يَلُوحُ لَوْحاً. ويقال للشيء إذا تلأْلأَ: لاحَ يَلوحُ لَوْحاً ولُؤُوحاً. ولاح لي أَمرُك وتَلَوَّحَ: بانَ ووَضَحَ.
ولاحَ الرجلُ يَلُوح لُؤُوحاً: برز وظهر. أَبو عبيد: لاحَ الرجلُ وأَلاحَ، فهو لائح ومُلِيحٌ إذا برز وظهر؛ وقول أَبي ذؤيب: وزَعْتَهُمُ حتى إذا ما تَـبَـدَّدوا سِراعاً، ولاحَتْ أَوْجُهٌ وكُشُوحُ
إِنما يريد أَنهم رُمُوا فسقطت تِرَسَتُهم ومَعابِلُهُمْ، وتفرّقوا فأَعْوَرُوا لذلك وظهرتْ مَقاتِلُهم. ولاحَ الشيبُ يَلوح في رأْسه: بدا.
ولَوَّحه الشيبُ: بَيَّضَه؛ قال: من بَعْدِ ما لَوَّحَكَ القَتيرُ
وقال الأَعشى: فلئن لاحَ في الذُّؤابةِ شَيْبٌ يا لَبَكْرٍ، وأَنْكَرَتْني الغَواني
وقول خُفافِ بن نُدْبَةَ أَنشده يعقوب في المقلوب: فإِمَّا تَرَيْ رأْسِـي تَـغَـيَّرَ لَـوْنُـه ولاحتْ لَواحِي الشيبِ في كلِّ مَفْرَقِ
قال: أَراد لوائحَ فقَلَبَ. وأَلاحَ بثوبه ولَوَّح به، الأَخيرة عن اللحياني: أَخذ طَرَفَه بيده من مكان بعيد، ثم أَداره ولمَع به ليُرِيَهُ من يحبُّ أَن يراه. وكلُّ من لمَع بشيء وأَظهره، فقد لاحَ به ولَوَّح وأَلاحَ، وهما أَقل. وأَبيضُ يَقَقٌ ويَلَقٌ، وأَبيضُ لِياحٌ ولَياحٌ إذا بُولِغَ في وصفه بالبياض، قلبت الواو في لَياح ياء استحساناً لخفة الياء، لا عن قوّة علة. وشيء لَياحٌ: أَبيض؛ ومنه قيل للثور الوحشي لَياحٌ لبياضه؛ قال الفراء: إِنما صارت الواو في لياح ياء لانكسار ما قبلها؛ وأَنشد: أَقَبُّ البَطْنِ خَفَّاقُ الحَشـايا يُضِيءُ الليلَ كالقَمَرِ اللِّياحِ
قال ابن بري: البيت لمالك بن خالد الخُناعِي يمدح زُهَيرَ بنَ الأَغَرّ، قال: والصواب أَن يقول في اللِّياحِ إِنه الأَبيض المتلأْلئ؛ ومنه قولهم: أَلاحَ بسيفه إذا لمع به. والذي في شعره خَفَّاقٌ حشاه، قال: وهو الصحيح أَي يَخْفِقُ حَشاه لقلة طُعْمِه؛ وقبله: فَتىً ما ابنُ الأَغَرِّ إذا شَتَوْنـا وحُبَّ الزادُ في شَهْرَيْ قِماحِ
وشهْرا قُمحٍ هما شهرا البرد.
واللِّياحُ واللَّياحُ: الثور الوحشي وذلك لبياضه. واللَّياحُ أَيضاً: الصبح. ولقيته بِلَياحٍ إذا لقيته عند العصر والشمس بيضاء، الياس في كل ذلك منقلبة عن واو للكسرة قبلها؛ وأَما لَياحٌ فشاذ انقلبت واوه ياء لغير علة إِلاَّ طلب الخفة. وكان لحمزة بن عبد المطلب، رضي الله عنه، سيف يقال له لَياحٌ؛ ومنه قوله: قد ذاقَ عُثْمانُ، يومَ الجَرِّ من أُحُدٍ وَقْعَ اللَّياحِ، فأَوْدَى وهو مَذموم
قال ابن الأَثير: هو من لاحَ يَلوح لِياحاً إذا بدا وظهر. والأَلواحُ: السِّلاحُ ما يَلوحُ منه كالسيف والسِّنان؛ قال ابن سيده: والأَلواحُ ما لاحَ من السلاح وأَكثر ما يُعْنى بذلك السيوفُ لبياضِها؛ قال عمرو بن أَحمر الباهلي: تُمْسِي كأَلْواحِ السلاحِ، وتُضْ حِي كالمَهاةِ، صَبِيحةَ القَطْرِ

gogltranslation

And slander and waved: Raider fire, as well as we waved. All that changed by the fire, it was his portrait, the portrait as well as jealousy and the sun scorched his face. The glass in the words of the Almighty: The Oasis of human beings burn any skin so dominated; said: Oasis of the panel. It hinted at a thing with fire: Ohamith; said Gran Oud named Amer bin tillage: Aknbap punishment, it was Zifaa and Krthomha up, waved the fire
In an interview with facet in the novel: in the board Iloha Boghae Waldman board: the air. The Oasis Iloha: Not for the color. And Almluah: atrophic, as well as female; said: "All the misery of sciatica Mluah
And a woman and the Beast Mluah Mluah if Aldmr fast. I'm the air: In the names of Dawaba, peace be upon, that the name of his horse Mlaouh, which Damer, which is not fattening, and great thirst and rapid panels, which also Almluah.
The board: Overview Kalmahp. The Oasis blind eye to the panel: a hidden and then saw it; sang: Did you do me any good if the panel Olouhha?
As well as to analyze and waving to the fire if you look far; TFB said: I swear, I've had many eyes, to light a fire, burning in Ivaa
Any considered.
The case lightning waving a sheet and Wouha and Ouhana any hints. Olah and lightning: blink, it is beautiful; and said: Olah all around; Abu Dhu'ayb: I saw, and my family Bawadi Alrgi p from about Qilp, Barqa Mileiha
Olah and sword and board: its action and movement. Case and the star: it seemed.
And Olah: light and appeared to be sparkling and expanded its light; Almtelmus said: The Olah Suhail, after Ahjawa like a disease, cease, Mqubos
I'm skeet: It is said Suhail case if it appears, and if sparkling Olah; and say: case lightning sword and waving a sheet. And if something is said to sparkle: case waving a sheet and Wouha. And seemed to me and waving things: that he explained.
The case of the man waving Wouha: emerged and back. Abu Obeid: case of men and Olah, he is handsome and Regulations if emerged and appeared; Dhu'ayb my father and say: even if deployed by the melted rushing, and there have been ways and Sh
But they wanted and threw fell Trsthm Amaablhm, and dispersed Voaouroa therefore emerged Mqatlhm. The case of gray hair waving in the head: it seemed.
Gray panel: Egg; said: "After what rubbing Algueter
The TFB: while in the case Alzwabp Shipp O Bakr, disown me Guani
Sandals and say Ben scar I seek Jacob in inverted: either you see my color changed and there have been attempts to gray hair in each junction
Said: "The heart wants lists. Olah and his garment, and waved it, recent اللحياني: Taking tip his hand from afar, and then manage the work of tags to show him who loves to see. All of the work of something and shown, the case by the board and Olah, two less. And white Iqq and received, and white and noted with satisfaction noted with satisfaction if exaggerated in his description in white, turned the waw in J noted with satisfaction favorably on the lightness of Z, not the power of the bug. And something noted with satisfaction: white; and it was said to the bull brutal noted with satisfaction to the egg-white; said fur: It now has a waw in J noted with satisfaction to the refraction of what came before; and sang: Lakeb abdominal fizzy mattresses like the moon shines at night at Al
Ibn al-Barre: home to the owner of Khalid bin Zuhair bin Alkhanaai praise glorious, he said: The right to say in that at Al sparkling white; and from the saying: If you work with his sword Olah tags. Which in fizzy hair stuffed, he said: It fails to correct any stuffed for lack of taste; and before: Boy what I'm Trafalgar If Stona love intake in the months Qammah
Months and wheat are the cold months.
And at Al and at Al: Bull brutal and to the egg-white. And at Al also: the morning. And I received Bljah if I received in the afternoon and the sun white, Elias in all that overturned on the F to the piece of before; As noted with satisfaction the Fshaz overturned and J. Oh, except for non-bug request lightness. It was Hamza bin Abdul Muttalib, may Allah be pleased with him, Saif said to him noted with satisfaction; and from the saying: You may savor Osman, on traction from a signed at Al, which is blameworthy Voody
I said the air: is the case for the waving Iaha if looked back. Panels: the looming arms Ksif and spear him; son of a woman: and plate the case of weapons and more, which means that swords whiteness; Amr bin red Baahili: branded Koluah arms, Otd Kalmhap district, on the morning of the country

nock
07-22-2010, 01:19 PM
Veneto (where I live) from the population Veneti.
Names as Veneti Eneti or Venetici seemed to be not uncommon in the past, maybe due to the indoeuropean root "wen" (to love). However, it is sure that the Region's name comes from the name o the population

Calabria (dad's region) seems to have its name also from the Calabri, a population.

Puglia (mum's region) is the only interesting origin.
It seems maybe the Romans named the region Apuglia, then Apulia, because of the scarcity of rain: A - pluvia (privative A plus pluvia, latin for rain).

sturmgewehr
07-22-2010, 02:35 PM
According to Lisan al Arab, lbn can means sperm, milk, white and also other secondary meanings.
afaik leuko is the Greek word (not Latin) for white:
According to etymonline

I've read in the thrid volume of Black Athena (and also it exists on nostratic dictionnary of Dolgopolsky) that *lk is a common nostratic root.
http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=yFLm_M_OdK4C&pg=PA97&lpg=PA97&dq=bernal+light+luk+afro+asiatic&source=bl&ots=_-nwCrnNhY&sig=LERDR6iG6OpwzUGbSrWfm_Ycj9o&hl=tr&ei=jjxITOiUNoiX4gahnOHcDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

pie *leuk, proto nostratic law/lew (shine), paa lawh?? (the author only wrote "they refer to afro-asiatic forms with final -h, but in lisan al arab there is the root lwH which means fire, light, white... see below)
The colored parts are the ones speaking about lwH (note that H is distinct from h) meaning white.

I think that is what I was trying to say that LEUKOS is the Original word for white in Latin and Greek languages.

in Albanian the word for white is bardhë, there is no H sound in the word bardhë, the DH is one letter by itself and it is read DH like in english THE.

Colin Wilson
07-22-2010, 03:01 PM
Thank you, but "leukos" is Greek there is Latin" lux" from the same root but it means"light".
The word "bardhe" reminds me the word for "white" in Arabic "abyadh" with emphatic delta (same sound as Albanian dh and English th in the) but I'd better stop here for those cognate speculations:p

pinguin
07-22-2010, 03:03 PM
Ethimology of Ibero-American South American countries. The origins of the names Argentina, Brazil and Venezuela, in particular, are very interesting.

Argentina:

From the Latin argentum, meaning "silver", which was imported from Ancient Greek ἀργήντος (argēntos), gen. of ἀργήεις (argēeis), "white, shining"[4] and Αργεντινός (argentinos; "silvery")[5], cognate to Sanskrit अर्जुन arjuna, meaning ....."one who has the charm of silver". Early Spanish and Portuguese traders used the region's Río de la Plata or "Silver River" to transport silver and other treasures from Peru to the Atlantic. The land around the terminal downstream stations became known as La Argentina – "The Land of Silver".

Bolivia:

Named after Simón Bolívar (1783–1830), an anti-imperialist militant and first president of Bolivia after the country gained its independence in 1825. His surname comes from La Puebla de Bolibar, a village in Biscay, Spain. The etymology of Bolibar may be bolu- ("mill") + -ibar ("river"). Thus, it might mean a mill on a river.

Brazil:

Named after the brazilwood tree, called pau-brasil in Portuguese and so-named because its reddish wood resembled the color of red-hot embers (brasa in Portuguese), and because it was recognized as an excellent source of red dye. In Tupi it is called "ibirapitanga", which means literally "red wood". The wood of the tree was used to color clothes and fabrics.

Another theory states that the name of the country is related to the Irish myth of Hy-Brazil, a phantom island similar to St. Brendan's Island, southwest of Ireland. The legend was so strong that during the 15th century many expeditions tried to find it, the most important being that of John Cabot. As the Brazilian lands were reached by Pedro Álvares Cabral in 1500 A.D., the Irish myth would have influenced the late name given to the country (after "Island of Real Cross" and "Land of Holy Cross"). The proof that the legend was popular among Iberic people may be verified by the name of the Azorean Terceira Island, registered in the 14th century in the Atlas Catalan and around 1436 on the Venetian map of Andrea Bianco.

Chile:

Exact etymology unknown. Possibilities include that it comes from a native Mapudungun term meaning "the depths", a reference to the fact that the Andes mountain chain looms over the narrow coastal flatland. The Quechua or Mapuche Indian word chili/chilli or "where the land ends/where the land runs out/limit of the world" is a possible derivation. Another possible meaning originates with an Aymara word tchili, meaning "snow".
Also, Chiri in Quechua means cold.

Colombia:

Named after the explorer Christopher Columbus, despite the fact that he never was in the country as we know it today. During his fourth voyage Columbus did visit Panama, which was part of Colombia until 1903.

Ecuador:

"Equator" in Spanish, as the country lies on the Equator.

Paraguay:

The exact meaning of the word "Paraguay" is unknown, though it seems to derive from the river of the same name. One of the most common explanations is that it means "water of the Payagua (a native tribe)". Another meaning links the Tupi-Guarani words para ("river") and guai ("crown"), meaning "crowned river". A third meaning may be para ("river"), gua ("from"), i ("water") meaning "river that comes from the water", referring to the bog in the north of the country, which is actually in Brazil.

Peru:

The exact meaning behind the word "Peru" is obscure. The most popular theory derives it from the native word biru, meaning "river" (compare with the River Biru in modern Ecuador). Another explanation claims that it comes from the name of the Indian chieftain Beru. Spanish explorers asked him the name of the land, but not understanding their language, he assumed they wanted his own name, which he gave them. Another possible origin is pelu, presumptively an old native name of the region.

Uruguay:

The name comes from the Uruguay River (indeed its official name "Republica Oriental del Uruguay" — "oriental" meaning "eastern" — references its position east of the river). The word "Uruguay" itself may derive from the Guaraní words urugua ("shellfish") and i ("water"), meaning "river of shellfish". Another possible explanation holds that the name "Uruguay" divides into three component Guaraní words: uru (a kind of bird that lived near the river); gua ("to proceed from"); and i ("water").

Venezuela:

from Italian Venezuola meaning "Little Venice", from the diminutive form of "Venezia". The native stilt-houses built on Lake Maracaibo impressed the European explorers Alonso de Ojeda and Amerigo Vespucci and reminded them of buildings in Venice.

Colin Wilson
07-22-2010, 03:05 PM
Before forgetting, "abyadh" most probably comes from "baydha" the word for "egg" in Arabic (due to the fact that eggs are generally white colored??)

bolu- ("mill") + -ibar ("river").
Is that in Castellan language or from some pre ie language of Spain such as Tartessian, Iberian, Bask?

Chupa Chups
07-22-2010, 03:06 PM
Thank you, but "leukos" is Greek there is Latin" lux" from the same root but it means"light". It is also close to "Leche" which means "milk" , like the root 'LBN" means white but also milk (milk is white so).

sturmgewehr
07-22-2010, 03:07 PM
Thank you, but "leukos" is Greek there is Latin" lux" from the same root but it means"light".
The word "bardhe" reminds me the word for "white" in Arabic "abyadh" with emphatic delta (same sound as Albanian dh and English th in the) but I'd better stop here for those cognate speculations:p

the root of the word Bardhe is Bar or Bor.

The word Bardhe in Albanian comes from the word Zbardh, some say it comes from the word BORE which means snow, it has nothing to do with Arabic.

Zbardh which means Shine or lighten or illuminate.

Bore or Bordh which means snow

The Illyrians the people of Star considered their kings deities and called them Stars, the first Illyrian king HYLLIS which also in Albanian means Star, then there was other Illyrian king called BARDHYLIS which means the Lightning Star, the Shining Star, the White Star.

pinguin
07-22-2010, 03:34 PM
Is that in Castellan language or from some pre ie language of Spain such as Tartessian, Iberian, Bask?

Bolivar is a Basque last name,not Spanish. Basque is not an indoeuropean language. So, curiously, the name Bolivia has a Basque root.

Colin Wilson
07-22-2010, 03:36 PM
Do you know about the Celto-Albanian connection and Albano-Indoiranian isoglosses.(could be remnants of paleobalkanic indo-european and also pre indo-european languages??)
I've read that Albanian is deficient in indo-european roots (similarly to Greek) how could we connect this with Balkans being the secondary homeland of Indo-European languages and that proto Celtic could have arose somewhere in the Balkans.
http://indo-european-migrations.scienceontheweb.net/lexicostatistical_comparison_of_indo_european_lang uages.html

Hypothesis: Albanian related to Celtic

Evidently, there's a profound dissimilarity between Goidelic and Brythonic languages, which makes "Celtic" a rather deep, archaic grouping similar in this respect to the Balto-Slavic or Iranian branches. In fact, the herein assumed lexicostatical depth of 52% seems to be greater than that for the Balto-Slavic group (65%). Consequently, the great depth of the Celtic branch may finally allow to add Albanian with its similar lexicostatistical separation of about 50% to the Celtic languages.

Is Albanian really Celtic? The similarities between Albanian and other Celtic languages can be directly exemplified by the following lexemes, some of which may turn out to be unique shared innovations:

http://pastpresenters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Indo-European.jpg

sturmgewehr
07-22-2010, 03:44 PM
Do you know about the Celto-Albanian connection and Albano-Indoiranian isoglosses.(could be remnants of paleobalkanic indo-european and also pre indo-european languages??)
I've read that Albanian is deficient in indo-european roots (similarly to Greek) how could we connect this with Balkans being the secondary homeland of Indo-European languages and that proto Celtic could have arose somewhere in the Balkans.
http://indo-european-migrations.scienceontheweb.net/lexicostatistical_comparison_of_indo_european_lang uages.html



http://pastpresenters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Indo-European.jpg

that has never been proven and I don't believe it, if Albanian has anything to do with Celtic or Celtic Languages then the Albanian population should show close genetic affinities with the Celtic Speaking populations and so on.

Albanians show close Genetic affinity with their neighboring countries in the region and not Celtic Speakers.

Of course Albanian will show some affinities with Celtic Languages because they are both IE languages, I also read somewhere else that Albanian Phonology is very similar to the Balto-Slavic Languages but that doesn't mean much.

Albanian is the direct Descendant of Illyro-Thracian dialects spoken in these regions where we live today with a moderate level of Latinization and some Minor Slavic borrowings.

Alberta
07-22-2010, 03:54 PM
The Crimea

The name Crimea takes its origin in the name of a city of Qırım (today's Stary Krym) which served as a capital of the Crimean province of the Golden Horde. Qırım is Crimean Tatar for "my hill" (qır – hill, -ım – my). However, there are other versions of the etymology of Qırım. Russian Krym is a Russified form of Qırım. The ancient Greeks called Crimea Tauris (later Taurica), after its inhabitants, the Tauri. The Greek historian Herodotus mentions that Heracles plowed that land using a huge ox ("Taurus"), hence the name of the land, and thereby asserting that these people named their land, and hence themselves, after an ox used by a mythical, Greek figure.

Iraq

The Arabic name العراق al-ʿIrāq has been in use since before the 6th century. There are several suggested origins for the name. One dates to the Sumerian city of Uruk (Biblical Hebrew Erech) and is thus ultimately of Sumerian origin, as Uruk was the Akkadian name for the Sumerian city of Unug, containing the Sumerian word for "city", URU. Another maintains according to Professor Wilhelm Eilers, "The name al-‘Irāq, for all its Arabic appearance, is derived from Middle Persian erāq lowlands".Mesopotamia has always been called "the land of Iraq" in Arabic, meaning "the fertile" or "deep-rooted land". During the medieval period, there was a region called ʿIrāq ʿArabī ("Arabian Iraq") for lower Mesopotamia and ʿIrāq ʿajamī ("Persian Iraq")or "Foreign Iraq for the region now situated in Central and Western Iran. The term historically included the plain south of the Hamrin Mountains and did not include the northernmost and westernmost parts of the modern territory of Iraq.

pinguin
07-22-2010, 03:58 PM
Guyana and Suriname are the two non-Iberian countries of South America. Theirs ethymology is linked with the legendary Taino Natives

The name "Guyana" is derived from guiana the original name for the region which now includes Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana and parts of Venezuela and Brazil. It is believed the original term came from a Taino word meaning either "land of fast-flowing water" (a reference to the numerous rivers of the territory) or "respectable", but the most famous and permanent one is "The Land Of Many Waters".

The name "Suriname" may derive from a Taino (Arawak-speaking) group called "Surinen" who first inhabited the region prior to European arrival

Colin Wilson
07-22-2010, 04:16 PM
Closest linguistic connection often doest not intersect with genetics (closest linguistic branch to Iranian is Indian but hindis diverge greatly from iranians who are more close to Altaic speaking Azeris and Anatolian Turks)!
As you know R1b is said to be of neolithic origin, connected with ibero-northanatolo-caucasic languages, and Celts look like "ie'ised" "ibero-aquitanians"(and other pre ie folks of Europe such as ligurs, tartessians, pleasgians, iberians, aquitanians etc...)
E1b1b (as well as J2 and perhaps G,I??) distribution in Europe shows to be of bronze age date.
Very likely there was language contacts (replacemenet, creolisation etc...) of various types (see this thread below)
http://anthrocivitas.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6329
In other words, it could be that R1b farmer "pelasgian" peoples picked up an ie language from bronze age migrants (E1b1b, J2...)
I think the current distirbution of E (as well as other hg's such as J2,and perhaps G,I??) in Europe betrays an expansion dated to bronze age=>indo-european expansions (aka south Anatolic languages).
http://i28.tinypic.com/jb6wb9.jpg
http://pastpresenters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Indo-European.jpg
It's R1b that seems to be the neolithic Vasco-Caucasian (aka north Anatolic languages=Hattic-Hurric-Vasconic-Etruscan cluster)farmers' marker.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0c/Near_East_1400_BCE.png/350px-Near_East_1400_BCE.png
http://i27.tinypic.com/2zrni3d.gif
http://www.armenian-history.com/Nyuter/HISTORY/ArmeniaBC/Urartu/kingdom%20of%20urartu%20map.gif
http://www.tribwatch.com/mapAncientItaly.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Languages_of_pre-Roman_Iberia.gif
How can E be indo-european in Europe and Afro-Asiatic/Niger-Kongo in Africa?
It should not be forgetten that R1b is Afro-Asiatic in Africa and there is no connection of hg and language, also Indo-Europeans and Afro-Asiatic are said to be nostratic (same phylum) languages and Niger-Kongo seems to be the closest phylum to Nostratic=>those language expansions correspond to different temporal layers of Nostratic(Afrasoropic).
European E DNA distribution (near undoubtfully indo-european bronze age expansion patern) fits well with indo-european languages expansions (do not forget R1a for the Asian part and also J and G for both Iran/India and Europe-perhaps also I)
E1b1b distribution
http://web.me.com/brewpe/Adam_BrouwerDNA/Adams_Haplogroup_files/E-V13%20concentration.jpg
J2
http://www.ydna.ru/files/m102map.gif
I
http://www.genetree.com/dna/education/Y_DNA/density_maps/i-m170.jpg
G
http://www.genetree.com/dna/education/Y_DNA/density_maps/g-m201.jpg
Indo-European languages diffusion
http://pastpresenters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Indo-European.jpg
European R1b distribution (nearly undoubtfully neolithic vasco-caucasic farmer expansion)
http://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/r1b-dna-distribution.jpg

pinguin
07-22-2010, 04:33 PM
Etymology of Venezuela and its relation with Venice-

In 1498, within the framework of his third voyage, Christopher Columbus sailed near the Orinoco Delta, then interned in the Gulf of Paria. Amazed, Columbus expressed in his moving letter to the Catholic Monarchs that he had reached the heaven on earth (the paradise), and confused by the unusual saltiness of the water, he wrote:

Great signs are these of the Terrestrial Paradise, for the site conforms to the opinion of the holy and wise theologians whom I have mentioned. And likewise, the [other] signs conform very well, for I have never read or heard of such a large quantity of fresh water being inside and in such close proximity to salt water; the very mild temperateness also corroborates this; and if the water of which I speak does not proceed from Paradise then it is an even greater marvel, because I do not believe such a large and deep river has ever been known to exist in this world.

His certainty of having attained Paradise made him name this region Land of Grace, a phrase which has become the country's nickname.

Nevertheless, the following year of 1499, an expedition led by Alonso de Ojeda visited the Venezuelan coast. The stilt houses in the area of Lake Maracaibo reminded the navigator Amerigo Vespucci of the city of Venice, (Italian: Venezia), so he named the region "Venezuela,"[11] meaning "little Venice". The word has the same meaning in Spanish, where the suffix -zuela is used as a diminutive term (e.g., plaza / plazuela, cazo / cazuela); thus, the term's original sense would have been that of a "little Venice".

Nonetheless, although the Vespucci story remains the most popular and accepted version of the origin of the country's name, a different reason for the name comes up in the account of Martín Fernández de Enciso, a member of the Vespucci and Ojeda crew. In his work Summa de Geografía, he states that they found an indigenous population who called themselves the "Veneciuela," which suggests that the name "Venezuela" may have evolved from the native word.


http://www.mipunto.com/venezuelavirtual/galeria_fotos/maracaibo/images/430_venezuela_zulia_maracaibo_municipiopaez_laguna desinamaica_palafitos.gif

http://www.venezuelatuya.com/tradiciones/imagenes/palafitos.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Pix/pictures/2004/03/10/palafito_new.jpg

sturmgewehr
07-22-2010, 04:47 PM
Closest linguistic connection often doest not intersect with genetics (closest linguistic branch to Iranian is Indian but hindis diverge greatly from iranians who are more close to Altaic speaking Azeris and Anatolian Turks)!
As you know R1b is said to be of neolithic origin, connected with ibero-northanatolo-caucasic languages, and Celts look like "ie'ised" "ibero-aquitanians"(and other pre ie folks of Europe such as ligurs, tartessians, pleasgians, iberians, aquitanians etc...)
E1b1b (as well as J2 and perhaps G,I??) distribution in Europe shows to be of bronze age date.
Very likely there was language contacts (replacemenet, creolisation etc...) of various types (see this thread below)
http://anthrocivitas.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6329
In other words, it could be that R1b farmer "pelasgian" peoples picked up an ie language from bronze age migrants (E1b1b, J2...)
I think the current distirbution of E (as well as other hg's such as J2,and perhaps G,I??) in Europe betrays an expansion dated to bronze age=>indo-european expansions (aka south Anatolic languages).


It's R1b that seems to be the neolithic Vasco-Caucasian (aka north Anatolic languages=Hattic-Hurric-Vasconic-Etruscan cluster)farmers' marker.


How can E be indo-european in Europe and Afro-Asiatic/Niger-Kongo in Africa?
It should not be forgetten that R1b is Afro-Asiatic in Africa and there is no connection of hg and language, also Indo-Europeans and Afro-Asiatic are said to be nostratic (same phylum) languages and Niger-Kongo seems to be the closest phylum to Nostratic=>those language expansions correspond to different temporal layers of Nostratic(Afrasoropic).
European E DNA distribution (near undoubtfully indo-european bronze age expansion patern) fits well with indo-european languages expansions (do not forget R1a for the Asian part and also J and G for both Iran/India and Europe-perhaps also I)
E1b1b distribution


The Albanian language being connected to Celtic Languages is a Hypothesis and it has never been proven. That is why it is a hypothesis cuz the guy thinks it is like that based on his own opinion and based on his deficient facts and arguments that count for nothing.

Closest genetic affinity show close linguistic Affinity.

Take for example the Slavic speaking populations, they show close genetic affinity and close linguistic affinity, except the South Slavs that are assimilated native Illyro-Thracians who got assimilated by the new comming Slavs from the north during the 6th Century.

Albanians show close genetic affinity with the surrounding countries like Macedonia, Serbia, Montenegro, Vlachs etc.... we know that these south speaking Slavs are assimilated Native Balkanites and also Vlachs are Latinized Native Balkanites and show close genetic affinity with Albanians.

Germanic speaking people show close linguistic speaking affinity.

Latin speaking populations not so much since latin languages were spread a lot later in Iberia and other parts, not with the IE expansion but with the Roman Expansion.

Once more the Albanian-Celtic Connection is just a myth and that is what it will remain. Albanian and Celtic Languages show close relations because they are IE languages but not because Albanian is Celtic.


Haplogroup E-V13 and J2b are of Neolithic origin, I don't know about R1b but E-V13 and J2 entered Europe with the Neolithic Migration and new farming technologies.


The haplogroup J2b (J-M12) is frequently also discussed in connection to V13, as a haplogroup with a seemingly very similar distribution and pre-history. See especially Cruciani et al. (2007).
Cruciani et al. (2007) says there were at least four major demographic events which have been envisioned for this geographic area:
The "post-Last Glacial Maximum expansion (about 20 kya)"
The "Younger Dryas-Holocene reexpansion (about 12 kya)"
The "population growth associated with the introduction of agricultural practices (about 8 kya)"
The "development of Bronze technology (about 5kya)"
The distribution and diversity of V13 are generally thought to be suggestive that it was brought to the Balkans along with early farming technologies, during the Neolithic expansion (Semino et al. (2004)]]). However, Battaglia et al. (2008) believe it arrived in Europe in the Mesolithic and then only later integrated with Neolithic cultures in the Balkans. They suggest the first major dispersal of E-V13 from the Balkans may have been in the direction of the Adriatic Sea with the Neolithic Impressed Ware culture often referred to as Impressa or Cardial. Battaglia et al. associate this migration also with the Y haplogroup I-M423.

p.s: I saw ur thread, and I have to say that thread is all based on a couple of words that r similar to Arabic with Indo European, which could as well be a coincidence.

We still don't know what did the original Illyrian or THracian language look like let alone Nostratic or the first Indo European, all those stuff are a bunch of useless hypothesis that can't be proven cuz those languages r long gone and dead.

the Nostratic insanity and Macro-Kushtic nonsense is just crazy, it is based on nothing, they base it on current studies of languages who have changed a lot and populations have migrated back and forth so many times that it makes it almost impossible to trace back a Nostratic or Macro-Kushtic Language or whateverthefuck it is supposed to mean.

Illyrians didn't leave any fully written records, just a couple of coins and tombstones with short writings and those also resemble albanian a lot, also Thracians they maybe left more traces than Illyrians but not as much as Ancient Hellens.

this is ur post:

According to the amateur linguist Arnaud Fournet, Indo-European is a branch of Afro-Asiatic and according to professional linguist Robert Bender Nostratic itself is a branch of what he calls macro-kushitic (the root akwa=water is present in Kushitic and Indo-European but not[lost??] in Semitic) albeit, we need further linguistic, historical, cultural-and-human-diffusion studies...

The guy was trying to say: I GOT NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL AM I TALKING ABOUT CUZ I BASE MY FACTS ON SIMPLE COINCIDENCES.

We need further linguistic, historic studies lol, where is he gonna find that??? Raise the Dead Nostratic speakers from the grave ?????



Apollo vs Lapitha represents resistance of locals (ie Pelasgians) against newcomers (ie Indo-European Hellens)=>thus it's rather a legend and not a myth.

all this sounds so unscientific, based on Black Athena a good night Greek mythology story.

Pelasgians are also a myth, pelasgians haven't left any traces, if they existed then where is their civilization ????

Where is their written language???? etc....

Ojancano
07-22-2010, 04:55 PM
I Think Castilla means "Land of Castles" Espanya, comes from the early french Espagne, which at the same time derives from the Latin "Hispania".


below from wiki

The origin of the word Hispania is much disputed and the evidence for the various speculations are based merely upon what are at best mere resemblances (likely to be accidental) and the sketchiest of supporting evidence. One theory holds it to be of Punic derivation, from the Phoenician language of colonizing Carthage[1]. It may derive from the Canaanite Hebrew אי-שפניא (i-shfania) meaning "Island of the Hyrax" or "island of the hare" or "island of the rabbit". Another theory, proposed by the etymologist Eric Partridge in his work Origins, is that it is of Iberian derivation and that it is to be found in the pre-Roman name for Seville, Hispalis, which strongly hints at an ancient name for the country of *Hispa, an Iberian or Celtic root whose meaning is now lost. It may alternatively derive from Heliopolis (Greek for "city of the sun"). Occasionally it was called Hesperia, the western land, by Roman writers, or Hesperia ultima.

Another theory derives the name from Ezpanna, the Basque word for "border" or "edge", thus meaning the farthest area or place.[3][4] Isidore of Sevilla considered Hispania derived from Hispalis.[5]

Substituting "Spanish" for Hispanicus or "Hispanic", or "Spain" for Hispania, though sometimes done by historians in the more general context of common peninsular history, is anachronistic and can be misleading, since the borders of modern Spain do not coincide with those of the Roman province of Hispania, or of the Visigothic Kingdom which succeeded it, and have always shifted, not even including Portugal at present. Although the Latin term Hispania was often used during Antiquity and the High Middle Ages as a geographical name for the Iberian Peninsula, its cognates "Spain" and "Spanish" have become increasingly associated with the Kingdom of Spain alone, after the merging of the central peninsular Kingdom of Castile and the eastern one of Aragon in the 15th century under the Catholic Kings.

Colin Wilson
07-22-2010, 05:57 PM
The patern of E1b1b, J2 and G in Europe show rather a bronze age diffusion not a neolithic one.
the root of the word Bardhe is Bar or Bor.

The word Bardhe in Albanian comes from the word Zbardh, some say it comes from the word BORE which means snow, it has nothing to do with Arabic.
I did not say that this word is Arabic, but it's either a Semitic loan or a common proto root.
In fact I was wrong, I should have connected that Albanian word to the Arabic word "barad" (hailstones, and you know that hailstones are white)

بَرَد
اســــــــــــم حَبُّ الغَمَام
, hailstones , hail

p.s: I saw ur thread, and I have to say that thread is all based on a couple of words that r similar to Arabic with Indo European, which could as well be a coincidence.

We still don't know what did the original Illyrian or THracian language look like let alone Nostratic or the first Indo European, all those stuff are a bunch of useless hypothesis that can't be proven cuz those languages r long gone and dead.

the Nostratic insanity and Macro-Kushtic nonsense is just crazy, it is based on nothing, they base it on current studies of languages who have changed a lot and populations have migrated back and forth so many times that it makes it almost impossible to trace back a Nostratic or Macro-Kushtic Language or whateverthefuck it is supposed to mean.

Illyrians didn't leave any fully written records, just a couple of coins and tombstones with short writings and those also resemble albanian a lot, also Thracians they maybe left more traces than Illyrians but not as much as Ancient Hellens.

Since all humans descend from a single African human it's logical that all their languages, mythologies and of course genetics are connected.
Those are not Arabic words but derivatives of widespread ancient proto roots present also in Semitic branch languages and the bigger afro-asaitic languages as well as other language families.
Ilyrians too did not leave much written literary but they existed of course, Albanians "waited" to the 15-16th century (I do not remember well the dates) to begin leaving texts but they of course existed before that.
Proto Indo-European too is a hypothethical constructed and not atetsted language, but it's by constructing those proto roots that comparative linguistic works.
Greece, Crets and Cyprus was not empty before indo-european folks migrations, and there were brilliant civilisations of Pelasgians and Minoans.
The problem is that the last newcomer minoritary group who impose its language in the already crowded folks "take all the credits"please read the thread below
http://anthrocivitas.net/forum/showthread.php?p=69130#post69130
Slavs being close to each other is not due to the fact of being Slavs but this closeness is established far away before even the indo-european folks migrations.
It's not based on Black Athena (there are also many nostratic works, see Nostratic dictionnary) but on accepted scholarly works and observations (try to see that book's references and may read it)

Colin Wilson
07-22-2010, 06:11 PM
I should add that by a brief look at lisan al arab (the text is very long and not need post it since very few understands Arabic and google translation looks very bad), I learned that brd has as meanings (cold, snow, hailstone, white, [most probably by oppsition] black etc...)
I noted the similarity with Italian freddo (cold)

Here some sections:

وبَرَدَه يَبْرُدُه: خلطه بالثلج وغيره، وقد جاء في الشعر. وأَبْرَدَه: جاء به بارداً. وأَبْرَدَ له: سقاهُ بارداً. وسقاه شربة بَرَدَت فؤَادَه تَبْرُدُ بَرْداً أَي بَرَّدَتْه. ويقال: اسقني سويقاً أُبَرِّد به كبدي.
البَرْدُ: ضدُّ الحرّ. والبُرودة: نقيض الحرارة؛ بَرَدَ الشيءُ يبرُدُ بُرودة وماء بَرْدٌ وبارد وبَرُودٌ وبِرادٌ، وقد بَرَدَه يَبرُدُه بَرْداً وبَرَّدَه: جعله بارداً. قال ابن سيده: فأَما من قال بَرَّدَه سَخَّنه لقول الشاعر:
عافَتِ الماءَ في الشتاء،
فقلنا: بَرِّديه تُصادفيه سَخِينا فغالط، إِنما هو: بَلْ رِدِيه، فأَدغم على أَن قُطْرباً قد قاله.
الجوهري: بَرُدَ الشيءُ، بالضم، وبَرَدْتُه أَنا فهو مَبْرُود وبَرّدته تبريداً، ولا يقال أَبردته إِلاّ في لغة رديئة؛ قال مالك بن الريب، وكانت المنية قد حضرته فوصى من يمضي لأَهله ويخبرهم بموته، وأَنْ تُعَطَّلَ قَلُوصه في الركاب فلا يركبهَا أَحد ليُعْلم بذلك موت صاحبها وذلك يسرّ أَعداءه ويحزن أَولياءه؛ فقال:
وهي حجارة صلبة، وسحابة بَرِدَةٌ على النسب: ذات بَرْدٍ، ولم يقولوا بَرْداء. الأَزهري: أَما البَرَدُ بغير هاء فإِن الليث زعم أَنه مطر جامد. والبَرَدُ: حبُّ الغمام، تقول منه: بَرُدَتِ الأَرض. وبُرِدَ القوم: أَصابهم البَرَدُ، وأَرض مبرودة كذلك. وقال أَبو حنيفة: شجرة مَبْرودة طرح البَرْدُ ورقها.
الأَزهري: وأَما قوله عز وجل: وينزل من السماء من جبال فيها من بَرَدٍ فيصيب به؛ ففيه قولان: أَحدهما وينزل من السماء من أَمثال جبال فيها من بَرَدٍ، والثاني وينزل من السماء من جبال فيها بَرَداً؛ ومن صلة؛ وقول الساجع: وصِلِّياناً بَرِدَا وثوب أَبْرَدُ: فيه لُمَعُ سوادٍ وبياض، يمانية.
google translation


And cools his response: mixed with snow and others, came in the hair. And Obrdh: inspired by the cold. And colder to him: gave him to drink cool. And his heart gave him to drink a drink of cool cool cool any apostate. And say: pour Soiqa colder by the liver.
Cold: against the heat. And cold: Contrary to heat; cold thing cooler and cooling water is cold and cold and frosty, and Brad, his response was cool it cool and push: make it cool. Son of a woman: As of Sokhna said his response to the poet's words:
Interaction of water in the winter,
We said: Papyrus chance Sgena Fgalt, is: rather rosy, Vodgham that may Qtrba he said.
Substance: cold thing, annexation, and apostate man is Mbrod and an apostate, cooling, can not be said Obrdth only in the language of poor; Maalik ibn suspicion, and was away had I attended Vosy of going to his family and tell them of his death, and disruption of Gulws the passenger is not riding one to inform the death of the owner and so pleased and saddened by his enemies close friends; said:
It rocks hard, impermeable and a cloud of descent: with cold, did not say cloak. Azhari: The cold without the E-Layth allegedly rain rigid. And cold: the love of the clouds, says in part: Cool Earth. And the response of people: suffered cold, and the land Mbrodp as well. Abu Hanifa: Tree Mbrodp put cold and leaves.
Azhari: The saying the Almighty: and down out of heaven from the mountains where the cold afflicts him; is subject two opinions: one and go down from Heaven like the mountains where the cold, and the second and down out of heaven from the mountains of coolness; and link; and say Alsaga: The Saliana cool and dress Coolest: the work of blackness and whiteness, the Yemenites
Of course those roots can be found also, at least in Semitic and Afro-Asiatic

sturmgewehr
07-22-2010, 08:22 PM
The patern of E1b1b, J2 and G in Europe show rather a bronze age diffusion not a neolithic one.

I did not say that this word is Arabic, but it's either a Semitic loan or a common proto root.
In fact I was wrong, I should have connected that Albanian word to the Arabic word "barad" (hailstones, and you know that hailstones are white)




Since all humans descend from a single African human it's logical that all their languages, mythologies and of course genetics are connected.
Those are not Arabic words but derivatives of widespread ancient proto roots present also in Semitic branch languages and the bigger afro-asaitic languages as well as other language families.
Ilyrians too did not leave much written literary but they existed of course, Albanians "waited" to the 15-16th century (I do not remember well the dates) to begin leaving texts but they of course existed before that.
Proto Indo-European too is a hypothethical constructed and not atetsted language, but it's by constructing those proto roots that comparative linguistic works.
Greece, Crets and Cyprus was not empty before indo-european folks migrations, and there were brilliant civilisations of Pelasgians and Minoans.
The problem is that the last newcomer minoritary group who impose its language in the already crowded folks "take all the credits"please read the thread below
http://anthrocivitas.net/forum/showthread.php?p=69130#post69130
Slavs being close to each other is not due to the fact of being Slavs but this closeness is established far away before even the indo-european folks migrations.
It's not based on Black Athena (there are also many nostratic works, see Nostratic dictionnary) but on accepted scholarly works and observations (try to see that book's references and may read it)


if u read what Semino and Battaliga had to say above about E V13 it will be very clear to u,

E and J2 didn't come on Sunday here, there were multiple migrations, some E V13 are as old as 10 000 YBP some are 5000 YBP etc etc......

The white thing coming from hail is literal nonsense, I just told u before white in Albanian is Bardhe and it ocmes from BORE, BORDH and ZBARDH which pretty much have the meaning of Snow ,Ligh, white, shining.

Hail has nothing to do with it.

I still stand on my own, I don't have to read such nonsense, there is no Nostratic thing, the common words between Albanians and the rest of Europeans come from the fact that these languages have one common origin.

Pelasgians didn't leave a goddamn thing, where is their civilization ????? their writing system ???? etc etc....


as I said we don't knwo what the PIE looked like and no one will and no one has proved anythign about that, we come to conclusions about PIE by studying the nowadays living European languages and coming to conclusions without having any real written arguments from the previous ancestor languages.

the first people that migrated from Africa or the first humans were 50 000 Years ago and those people had no written language and we dont know for sure if they really had any language or they used body language or god knows what.

European Languages like Illyrian, Thracian and Celtic were born here in Europe and they came from previously other PIE languages that came before some other language that we don't know cuz they had no writing system etc etc....

Macro-Kushtic and the Nostratic delusion is just insane, those are empty claims by some linguists who also by themselves say that they need further arguments and facts.

U can't base the Arabic Bdr for Hail and say OH THAT IS WHITE CUZ ARABS SAY THAT NOW ILLYRIANS SAVED THAT FROM PROTO NOSTRATIC blla blla blla

TO tell u the truth I have tried reading the medieval Albanian language, the Code of Albanian is still living from the 13th Century and to tell u the truth I can't understand 40% of it, 40% of that Albanian looks greek to me let alone Nostratic and the rest of the nonsense we r talking now.

There is no way in the world those words have survived in nowadays languages, if the Medieval Albanian differs so much from the Modern ALbanian then there is nothing left to Discuss the difference between first European Languages and Modern European Languages and it gets even more insane discussing the Nostratic wet dreams of some kind of Crazy linguists that base their "truth" on a couple of words.

and no Nostratic doesn't exist, we invented the Term Nostratic, do u think those people 10 000 Years ago called themselves NOSTRATS??? give me a break, Nostratic is a social construct same like PIE or IE just to describe that there was a common ancestor to IE, Altaic and Semitic Languages which is pretty crazy and baseless.

Heraus
07-22-2010, 09:59 PM
I Think Castilla means "Land of Castles" Espanya, comes from the early french Espagne, which at the same time derives from the Latin "Hispania".
I still wonder what could precisely prevent Hispania from becoming España in Castillian. Still, provided it's a French word, it must originate from Southern Oc dialects as Hispania in French would be "Epaigne" (see the dog named "épagneul", an authentic Frech form for "espagnol" which is the Oc variant).

Batayllero
07-22-2010, 10:32 PM
I still wonder what could precisely prevent Hispania from becoming España in Castillian. Still, provided it's a French word, it must originate from Southern Oc dialects as Hispania in French would be "Epaigne" (see the dog named "épagneul", an authentic Frech form for "espagnol" which is the Oc variant).

España doesn't come from 'old French', obviously. At most, the word in English does. And more accurately, Spain in English comes from Anglo-Norman Espayne, from Late Latin Spania. Obviously in Spanish, España comes directly from Spania.

Yet Español in Spanish or espagnol in French come from Languedocian espa(i)nol, from medieval Latin *hispaniolu, and was very likely used in the sense of Iberian for anyone coming from beyond the Pyrenees, the old Roman province of Hispania.

Oinakos Growion
07-23-2010, 12:19 AM
The Americas are supposed to be named after an Italian guy named Amerigo Vespucci who supposedly was the first to realize that the Americas were not the fabled Indies (at least that's what i learned in 3rd grade). The United States of America was so named because it was a union of states in North America.
Therefore it's not really a name but a description ;) Hence why the USA people like to call themselves simply "Americans". With that they're in fact usurping the name of the whole continent. This is probably done in an involuntary way since it's not that easy to call oneself "united statizen" or something like that :D
Long gone seem the days when US people would always say they were "from the States" and not "from America" (which is not false by definition, but America is a big continent) :D
Btw, the euphemism "The Americas" as it is understood today in the English-speaking world came after the appropriation of the single term "America". No other language than English (that I know of) makes such distinction in such a political way.

Curious issue, innit?

Batayllero
07-23-2010, 12:30 AM
Since they can't promote the name Columbia again due to similarity with Colombia and America is also the continent, why not promote a name like Vespucia? :)

Vespucian English, Vespucian History X, Vespucians go home... :D

Oinakos Growion
07-23-2010, 12:32 AM
Well, at least it'd be a "name" :D
Or take a common native name if there's one and adopt it or something like that... (but I guess many would hate that idea).

Batayllero
07-23-2010, 12:34 AM
Well, at least it'd be a "name" :D
Or take a common native name if there's one and adopt it or something like that... (but I guess many would hate that idea).

I think it goes with the Anglic tradition. Daddy being called the United Kingdom...

Oinakos Growion
07-23-2010, 12:38 AM
Vespucians it is so :D

Oh the jokes one could make with such a name...

pinguin
07-23-2010, 01:07 AM
Therefore it's not really a name but a description ;) Hence why the USA people like to call themselves simply "Americans". With that they're in fact usurping the name of the whole continent. This is probably done in an involuntary way since it's not that easy to call oneself "united statizen" or something like that :D
Long gone seem the days when US people would always say they were "from the States" and not "from America" (which is not false by definition, but America is a big continent) :D
Btw, the euphemism "The Americas" as it is understood today in the English-speaking world came after the appropriation of the single term "America". No other language than English (that I know of) makes such distinction in such a political way.

Curious issue, innit?

Absolutely. The Name "America" was applied for the first time to Brazil, and by extention to South America.

The people of the U.S. is simply usurping our right to call ourselves Americans. The U.S. people, as usually, think they are the only important people on the Earth surface :rolleyes:

We are all Americans, all the people of the New World are Americans, like this group sings: We are all Americans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teilX_Z-IWw

Colin Wilson
07-23-2010, 09:39 AM
if u read what Semino and Battaliga had to say above about E V13 it will be very clear to u,

E and J2 didn't come on Sunday here, there were multiple migrations, some E V13 are as old as 10 000 YBP some are 5000 YBP etc etc......
So you admit that a part of E v13 and J2 could be from bronze age.

The white thing coming from hail is literal nonsense, I just told u before white in Albanian is Bardhe and it ocmes from BORE, BORDH and ZBARDH which pretty much have the meaning of Snow ,Ligh, white, shining.

Hail has nothing to do with it.
This word is either a loan or a derivative of common root, as you know Albanian is deficient in indo-european roots and has many Latin, Italian, Arabic, Turkish, Persian and possibly pre ie languages of Europe.

I still stand on my own, I don't have to read such nonsense, there is no Nostratic thing, the common words between Albanians and the rest of Europeans come from the fact that these languages have one common origin.
You opinion does not matter, yes Albanian partly descends from indo-european, but dont forget about language contacts, substratum etc also proto indo-european did not came from the moon ie is not an isolate phylum but is linked to other languages families (more the timedepth of the desintegreagtion of these proto languages is big more the similarities tend to be difficult to observe, but since proto nostratic is dated to around 10-15 k years, the grammatical similairites and the common roots are still visible.


Pelasgians didn't leave a goddamn thing, where is their civilization ????? their writing system ???? etc etc....
They were far away and prior to Sumerians and Egyptians, Greeks did not start to leave writing accounts until they "borrowed" the Alphabet from the Phoenicians.
But still we can speak of Pelasgian civilisation and existence, Greece was not empty before the bronze age!



European Languages like Illyrian, Thracian and Celtic were born here in Europe and they came from previously other PIE languages that came before some other language that we don't know cuz they had no writing system etc etc....
Proto indo-hittite (ie the ancestors of indo-european languages) "was born" in western Asia.

Macro-Kushtic and the Nostratic delusion is just insane, those are empty claims by some linguists who also by themselves say that they need further arguments and facts.

U can't base the Arabic Bdr for Hail and say OH THAT IS WHITE CUZ ARABS SAY THAT NOW ILLYRIANS SAVED THAT FROM PROTO NOSTRATIC blla blla blla
It's not hail but hailstones and the word is "barad"
http://www.stormtrack.org/library/faq/hailjim.jpg

There is no way in the world those words have survived in nowadays languages, if the Medieval Albanian differs so much from the Modern ALbanian then there is nothing left to Discuss the difference between first European Languages and Modern European Languages and it gets even more insane discussing the Nostratic wet dreams of some kind of Crazy linguists that base their "truth" on a couple of words.
They base themsleves in whoe lexical and grammatical pradigmas for roots widespread in many languages, ie the same pradigmas that afforded to discover the indo-european languages affinities.

and no Nostratic doesn't exist, we invented the Term Nostratic, do u think those people 10 000 Years ago called themselves NOSTRATS
Are you serious!
I prefer afrasoropic since nostratic is an "excluding" name.

??? give me a break, Nostratic is a social construct same like PIE or IE just to describe that there was a common ancestor to IE, Altaic and Semitic Languages which is pretty crazy and baseless.
Crazy and baseless according to you.

Colin Wilson
07-23-2010, 09:56 AM
So we have 2 possible countries whose name means "white"
For "lubnan" it is said that it's due to the snowy mounts.
For "albania" I dont know but possibly it cames from the frequent autumn hailstones in Albania:D
I begun to think also of a possible "white" etymology for Libya:rolleyes:, it's true that rarely it snows there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R9adH7ZozQ
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Al_Bayda,_Libya_snow.jpg
http://shots.ikbis.com/image/88578/screen/Snowed_in_Green_Mountain_-_1000_KM_Far_From_Tripoli_Libya_18-2-2008.jpg
http://shots.ikbis.com/image/91697/screen/Snow__Omar_Almo7tar_universty_-_Banghazi_-libya_18-2-2008__3_.jpg
But I think some thousand years ago the weather was colder.
It could be also a name given by Egyptians to their western neighbors as they depicted Libyans with a lighter skin.:p
http://x99.xanga.com/810f7a6567432260365955/b207389164.jpg

sturmgewehr
07-23-2010, 10:47 AM
So you admit that a part of E v13 and J2 could be from bronze age.


This word is either a loan or a derivative of common root, as you know Albanian is deficient in indo-european roots and has many Latin, Italian, Arabic, Turkish, Persian and possibly pre ie languages of Europe.


You opinion does not matter, yes Albanian partly descends from indo-european, but dont forget about language contacts, substratum etc also proto indo-european did not came from the moon ie is not an isolate phylum but is linked to other languages families (more the timedepth of the desintegreagtion of these proto languages is big more the similarities tend to be difficult to observe, but since proto nostratic is dated to around 10-15 k years, the grammatical similairites and the common roots are still visible.



They were far away and prior to Sumerians and Egyptians, Greeks did not start to leave writing accounts until they "borrowed" the Alphabet from the Phoenicians.
But still we can speak of Pelasgian civilisation and existence, Greece was not empty before the bronze age!




Proto indo-hittite (ie the ancestors of indo-european languages) "was born" in western Asia.


It's not hail but hailstones and the word is "barad"
http://www.stormtrack.org/library/faq/hailjim.jpg


They base themsleves in whoe lexical and grammatical pradigmas for roots widespread in many languages, ie the same pradigmas that afforded to discover the indo-european languages affinities.


Are you serious!
I prefer afrasoropic since nostratic is an "excluding" name.


Crazy and baseless according to you.

Yeah but u said E V13 came in the bronze Age and really it didn't, it first came during the meso-Neolithic Age according to Battalgia and Semino et el.

No Albanian is not deficient in Indo-European Roots, u have to prove it to me first then I will believe u.

And also show me the Many Arabic root words before the Turkish conquest that existed in Albanian Language....

Latin yes but Arabic, I know there r but those r just few useless words and we don't even need to use them cuz we have our own words for that.


Albanian shows no Gramatical and Phonological similarities with any of the Altaic or Semitic Languages, this claims are baseless and even the authors themselves are not sure what they are talking about, so stop being so sure.

if Nostratic existed 10 000 - 15 000 ago I am pretty sure claiming that there is something left of that language is stupid.

Yes the Greece was not empty there were a bunch of primitive neolithic farmers before the indo Europeans came and after the Indo Europeans came, Hunter Gatherers were consumed and partially exterminated by the neolithic farmers since Hunter gathetrers were small groups of people till max 50 People per group, I don't think there were that many Hunter gatherers in Europe back then, Europe was 70 Million People just a while ago let alone during the Paleolithic time, Neolithic Farmers had Larger groups cuz they could sustain more population by farming but still they were not that Advanced there were few, Definitely the INdo Europeans were way Bigger Groups and Hordes and they totallyu Consuymet the Neolithic Farmers, I highly doubt Neolithic Farmers left Any Traces, they didn't leave much cuz they were small groups and primitive, I highly doubt they had any great developed Language, the IEs consumed them and they didn't leave any traces due to their small number compared to IEs and due to their backwardness.

You seem to like writing a lot of baseless stuff but u seem to never prove it.

Show me the Pelasgian language, show me the Pelasgian civilization ???? this is the second time I am asking u.

There are no Grammatical Similarities between Albanian and Altaic Languages and there are Definitely NOT grammatical similarities between Albanian and Semitic Languages. I speak Fluent Turkish and I know how the Altaic Grammer works, it is a totally differnet alien language.

Show me the Grammatical Similarities between Albanian and Turkish or Arabic Languasges, LOL this will be fun :D.

Proto Indo Hittitie is only one THEORY and it is pretty much not well argumented, the other THeory is the KURGAN one and CORDED WARE one and these 2 more likely that the Proto INdo Hittitie one.

Indo European Languages are closely related and not that far, u can CLEARLY see the grammatical similarities between 2 indo european Languages and u can clearly see the same roots of the words, even with Indo European Languages there are still a lot of unclear stuff that needs to be distilled, there are still a lot of confusions because since then till now thousands of years have passed and languages have evolved.

THere is also clear genetic Connection between INdo European Speakers which adds to it.

There is no way u can prove the grammatical connection between an Indo European Language and an Altaic or Semitic one cuz those 2 are totally different languages and spoken in totally differnet ways.

THose stuff u say are a bunch of Hunches and Hypothesis, nothing of it has ever been proved and u r wasting your time.

The Albanian BARDHE once more I am telling u comes from the Albanian BORE, BORDH and ZBARDH

BORE, BORDH

http://www.stuffintheair.com/images/SnowDigging.jpg

ZBARDH = Shine, whiten, Sun Rise it has miltiple meanings

I know that Hail is not as common in Arabia as snow is in Albania, Albania has 4 Seasons, it Starts snowing on beginning of november and the snow Melts in End of June, Albanian Mountains are filled with Snow till late June.

It is lame claiming albanian word for StoneHail is BRESHER doesn't look nothing like Barad lol now u trying to tell me that we confused Hail with Snow.

Hail Stones are not that white and I bet in Arabia they have a different word for Snow which is thalj - ثلج‎ and has nothing to do with the Albanian BORE.

You are basing ur Arguments on simple coincidences, and you are being unscientific, you got nothing to prove it with.

Colin Wilson
07-23-2010, 11:08 AM
Yeah but u said E V13 came in the bronze Age and really it didn't, it first came during the meso-Neolithic Age according to Battalgia and Semino et el.
Some could came earlier and some later...

No Albanian is not deficient in Indo-European Roots, u have to prove it to me first then I will believe u.
That's what linguists write.

And also show me the Many Arabic root words before the Turkish conquest that existed in Albanian Language....
Not Arabic but probably Semitic there was.

Latin yes but Arabic, I know there r but those r just few useless words and we don't even need to use them cuz we have our own words for that.
Linguistic fascism, more a language is mixed more it's "sophisticated" see Greek, English...

Albanian shows no Gramatical and Phonological similarities with any of the Altaic or Semitic Languages, this claims are baseless and even the authors themselves are not sure what they are talking about, so stop being so sure.
I'm talking about proto languages and surely Albanian had grammatical and lexical influences from other languages.


if Nostratic existed 10 000 - 15 000 ago I am pretty sure claiming that there is something left of that language is stupid.
Stupid according to you.


Yes the Greece was not empty there were a bunch of primitive neolithic farmers before the indo Europeans came and after the Indo Europeans came, Hunter Gatherers were consumed and partially exterminated by the neolithic farmers since Hunter gathetrers were small groups of people till max 50 People per group, I don't think there were that many Hunter gatherers in Europe back then, Europe was 70 Million People just a while ago let alone during the Paleolithic time, Neolithic Farmers had Larger groups cuz they could sustain more population by farming but still they were not that Advanced there were few, Definitely the INdo Europeans were way Bigger Groups and Hordes and they totallyu Consuymet the Neolithic Farmers, I highly doubt Neolithic Farmers left Any Traces, they didn't leave much cuz they were small groups and primitive, I highly doubt they had any great developed Language, the IEs consumed them and they didn't leave any traces due to their small number compared to IEs and due to their backwardness.
Are you serious, indo-europeans came by bronze age and they surely were not the fascist genociders you portray.

You seem to like writing a lot of baseless stuff but u seem to never prove it.
You can read some books, example Nostratic dicitonnary published by the prestiguous Cambridge university it's free.

Show me the Pelasgian language, show me the Pelasgian civilization ???? this is the second time I am asking u.
Many non ie words in Greek descend from the substratic pelasgian language for example thalassa (sea)

There are no Grammatical Similarities between Albanian and Altaic Languages and there are Definitely NOT grammatical similarities between Albanian and Semitic Languages. I speak Fluent Turkish and I know how the Altaic Grammer works, it is a totally differnet alien language.
Turkish is agglutinative but both proto indo-european and north afro-asiatic languages are inflective.

Show me the Grammatical Similarities between Albanian and Turkish or Arabic Languasges, LOL this will be fun .
inflectivity, pronouns, conjonctions etc again I repeat that proto languages are compared not single languages.

Proto Indo Hittitie is only one THEORY and it is pretty much not well argumented, the other THeory is the KURGAN one and CORDED WARE one and these 2 more likely that the Proto INdo Hittitie one.
All of the are hypothesis but the Anatolian and the Kurgan hypothesis are the same thing ie they do not contradict each other.


Indo European Languages are closely related and not that far, u can CLEARLY see the grammatical similarities between 2 indo european Languages and u can clearly see the same roots of the words, even with Indo European Languages there are still a lot of unclear stuff that needs to be distilled, there are still a lot of confusions because since then till now thousands of years have passed and languages have evolved
I never said the contrary but due to substrate+creolisation etc they diverged a lot (some languages such as Kurdish is Ergative etc...)


THere is also clear genetic Connection between INdo European Speakers which adds to it.
There is not both for the haplogroups and autosomal mapping (An "altaic" Turk is closer to an "ie" greek than an "ie" sinhali, bengali or indian is) , and language is distinct from genetics.

There is no way u can prove the grammatical connection between an Indo European Language and an Altaic or Semitic one cuz those 2 are totally different languages and spoken in totally differnet ways.
No there is a way, as all are languages.

THose stuff u say are a bunch of Hunches and Hypothesis, nothing of it has ever been proved and u r wasting your time.
According to you


The Albanian BARDHE once more I am telling u comes from the Albanian BORE, BORDH and ZBARDH
BORE, BORDH
I did not said the contrary, this word could have arose froma common root or borrowed.






I know that Hail is not as common in Arabia as snow is in Albania, Albania has 4 Seasons, it Starts snowing on beginning of november and the snow Melts in End of June, Albanian Mountains are filled with Snow till late June.

It is lame claiming albanian word for StoneHail is BRESHER doesn't look nothing like Barad lol now u trying to tell me that we confused Hail with Snow.

Hail Stones are not that white and I bet in Arabia they have a different word for Snow which is thalj - ثلج‎ and has nothing to do with the Albanian BORE.
I know that of course, why you took it seriously.
Semitic for snow *salg is connected with proto indo-european *seng (snow)
The "urheimat" of Afro-Asiatic languages is most probably somewhere in Levant-Mesoptamia-Southern Anatolia area (Natufian and Halaf/Hassuna cultures "could be Afro-Asiatic speaking")

You are basing ur Arguments on simple coincidences, and you are being unscientific, you got nothing to prove it with.
It's not me but linguists, when those roots are worldwide attested it's not coincidence otherwise we could also say that similairities by some Albanian and Slavian words are just coincidence and do not descend from ancient common roots.

Colin Wilson
07-23-2010, 11:17 AM
Let's end this off topic.
All of this begun when you mentioned a possible Semitic etymology for the name of Albania.:o
It's odd that you are so "anti pleasgian":o
Many Albanians I know claim that Pelasgians were Albanians and that Greek civilisation owed very much to Pelasgians (it's abit true as the symbiosis and sythesis between Minoan, Pelasgians, Dorians and other folks that offered us the marvelous Greek civilisation)
Pelasgians
http://stoa.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/pelasgians.jpg
Here a good Albanian traditional folkloric song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl2ssrn-vRs

sturmgewehr
07-23-2010, 11:55 AM
Some could came earlier and some later...1


That's what linguists write.......2


Not Arabic but probably Semitic there was.......3


Linguistic fascism, more a language is mixed more it's "sophisticated" see Greek, English.......4


I'm talking about proto languages and surely Albanian had grammatical and lexical influences from other languages..........5






Stupid according to you..........6



Are you serious, indo-europeans came by bronze age and they surely were not the fascist genociders you portray..........7


You can read some books, example Nostratic dicitonnary published by the prestiguous Cambridge university it's free..............8


Many non ie words in Greek descend from the substratic pelasgian language for example thalassa (sea)........9


Turkish is agglutinative but both proto indo-european and north afro-asiatic languages are inflective.


inflectivity, pronouns, conjonctions etc again I repeat that proto languages are compared not single languages...........10


All of the are hypothesis but the Anatolian and the Kurgan hypothesis are the same thing ie they do not contradict each other.......................11



I never said the contrary but due to substrate+creolisation etc they diverged a lot (some languages such as Kurdish is Ergative etc...)



There is not both for the haplogroups and autosomal mapping (An "altaic" Turk is closer to an "ie" greek than an "ie" sinhali, bengali or indian is) , and language is distinct from genetics..........12


No there is a way, as all are languages. ..............13


According to you



I did not said the contrary, this word could have arose froma common root or borrowed...........14







I know that of course, why you took it seriously.
Semitic for snow *salg is connected with proto indo-european *seng (snow)
The "urheimat" of Afro-Asiatic languages is most probably somewhere in Levant-Mesoptamia-Southern Anatolia area (Natufian and Halaf/Hassuna cultures "could be Afro-Asiatic speaking")


It's not me but linguists, when those roots are worldwide attested it's not coincidence otherwise we could also say that similairities by some Albanian and Slavian words are just coincidence and do not descend from ancient common roots........................15


Let's end this off topic.
All of this begun when you mentioned a possible Semitic etymology for the name of Albania.
It's odd that you are so "anti pleasgian"
Many Albanians I know claim that Pelasgians were Albanians and that Greek civilisation owed very much to Pelasgians (it's abit true as the symbiosis and sythesis between Minoan, Pelasgians, Dorians and other folks that offered us the marvelous Greek civilisation)...........16



1......Yeah but in the beginning of the discussion u were pretty sure that Hg E came with the Indo European Speakers.


2........Proof, Every language is deficient in indo-european roots to some level.

3.......Proooofffff


4...............I don't give a rats damn about English and Greek, I never said Albanian is pure language, Albanian is also Latinized to some Extent but most of it is what it was passed down from Illyro-THracians.


5....... Yes Albanian has Grammatical Similarities with other Indo European Languages but not with Semitic and Altaic. for the second ones u will need a lot of arguments and Facts.


6....... and according to anyone that uses common sense.

7...... Yeah I am sure u know it lol, the more sophisticated a society the more warlike it was back then, Neolithic Farming gave raise to Warfare, it would be rare for Hunter Gatherers to go to war with each other and there r not that many arguments that Hunter Gatherers fought wars, Neolithic Farmers probably were more violent, I read somewhere there were found burned neolithic settlements and neolithic skulls that showed signs of brutal death and violence. Don't try to Convince me that a bunch of Bronze age People armed wirth Swords had mercy upon Neolithic Farmers, they surely raided the fuck out of everyone, raiding and exterminating other tribes back in the history was very common, Slavery too.


8...... Dude you are the one that posted this:

According to the amateur linguist Arnaud Fournet, Indo-European is a branch of Afro-Asiatic and according to professional linguist Robert Bender Nostratic itself is a branch of what he calls macro-kushitic (the root akwa=water is present in Kushitic and Indo-European but not[lost??] in Semitic) albeit, we need further linguistic, historical, cultural-and-human-diffusion studies...

Which means they don't know what the hell are they saying, they have no strong arguments and they base their THEORIES and HYPOTHESIS on a couple of words and ambiguous examples to make their own truth.

they haven't proved a thing yet, they say they still need more studies and Arguments, nothing of the Indo/european - Semitic connection has been proved, I mean nothing, they base that stuff on useless arguments which could as-well be coincidences or early borrowings from each other.

We know Lebanese people who speak a Semitic Language use a lot of Latin and Indo European Words, these stuff could be borrowings the way Lebanese borrowed them back in History and not a same common root between IEs and Semitic Languages.

9...... Stop talking lies, show me the Pelasgian language don't talk without Arguments, where is the pelasgian Language??? how did it sound>???

To say Greek and Pelasgian are Similar u need to have both Languages in order to compare them and u don't have the Pelasgian language cuz it is a MYTH.


10..... More Crap, oh God, how can u be so sure how can u be so affirmative when the Proto languages don't exist and are dead more than 5000 Years and have never left any written records or anything like that.

U clearly have no idea what u talking about, the Proto Languages are dead and were dead even before our Ancestors and it is a WASTE OF TIME talking about them cuz they are dead and no one ever saw them or heard them.

I would believe u if u had some kind of written records from Proto - Semitic Language and Proto- Indo European.

11..... that is not even the point, my point was that you talk with so much self confidence that PIE came from Anatolia and actually there are other Hypothesis who seem pretty logical.

12..... Dude Haplogroups have nothing to do with Language and haplogroups are a small drop of the genetic, I am talking about a GENOME WIDE COMPARISON, in Genome wide comparison Indo European speakers in Europe show close genetic affinity.

I will clusted with South Europeans and North Europeans the most in a Genome wide comparison and so will 98% of Albanians.

Haplogroups don't show ur ancestry, they don't show anything.

Neolithic Farmers ( E V13 & J2 ) and Paleolithic Hunter Gatherers ( I ) left only their haplogroups and nothing more, their genes are washed up and bred out, we don't look the same like them, we don't speak the same like them and we are not the same as them, haplogroups have literally no meaning when we talking about a genetic similarity between 2 populations. And yes Haplogroups don't have much to do with Languages.

I am more than sure that the only thing left from those E V13, J2 and I people is their haplogroup and nothing more, just that.


13..... Yes there COULD BE a way but u failed to prove it, and u can't prove it cuz no one has ever proved it.

14....... the common root is highly unlikely, the borrowed one is more likely because of the cultural and population clashes in Human History.


15...... Yes they could be a coincidence but the chances that those words descend from a common root with Slavic words are 100 times higher than they descend from Proto Semitic root. You trying to tell me that it is more likely that a word in Albanian descends from Proto Altaic or Semitic than Proto Slavic??? do u read what u write ?????? there is a HUGE, GIGANTIC gap between Albanian - Semitic and Albanian - Slavic, the distances between those 2 cases can't be compared and it is more than logical that Albanian - Proto Balto-Slavic is closer than Albanian- Proto Macro KKushtic LOOOOL:lol:, that cracks me up.\


16...... Yes let's end this OT, but u r wrong I did never say that the Word Albania had a Semitic Origin, I said the term Albania has a Latin origin where these latins could have taken this ALBANIA word from somewhere else, otherwise there is nothing Semitic About Albania in Albania cuz it was brought by the latins to us.

I am not Anti-Pelasgian and I don't give a damn about them cuz no one has ever proved that they existed and there r no traces left from them.

Pelasgian remains a MYTH.

Many Albanians claim many things but that doesn't mean it has to be true.

once more Show me the Pelasgian civilisation??? where are they and were were they, their Alphabet, their stone cravings, their whatnot, just freaking show me something.

THere are more facts and arguments from Neolithic Farmers in Vinca that left some kind of stone Cravings then Pelasgians.

All the pelasgian shit is so suspicious there r a bunch of useless theories and a bunch of contradictions that is why I don't like it.

Greetings with this polyphonic song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c814qoMb5mQ

Colin Wilson
07-23-2010, 12:17 PM
1 to 8
Probably it's the bronze age warriors who should be more violent than farmers but they were not the genocidal you portrays.
I still believe that the distribution of E in Europe largely denotes a bronze age expansion patern.
Read for example "Indo-Europeans and Indo-European languages" of Gamkrelidze&Ivanonv
I dont know Albanian but at least the word for 7 is a Semitic loan, and of course there exists many other Semitic, Latin, Turkish, English, Italian loans.
As this is an off topic, I dont like wasting time searching for linguistic books about Albanian language.


they haven't proved a thing yet, they say they still need more studies and Arguments, nothing of the Indo/european - Semitic connection has been proved, I mean nothing, they base that stuff on useless arguments which could as-well be coincidences or early borrowings from each other.
Please read books.

We know Lebanese people who speak a Semitic Language use a lot of Latin and Indo European Words, these stuff could be borrowings the way Lebanese borrowed them back in History and not a same common root between IEs and Semitic Languages.
What do you talk about, Phoenicians, Hebrews??
There are more than 300 common Afro-Asiatic/Indo-European roots (from a total of 458 proto indo-european roots)see Bomhard.


9...... Stop talking lies, show me the Pelasgian language don't talk without Arguments, where is the pelasgian Language??? how did it sound>???
I already said that it was tempospatially distant from the region where script arose, Pelasgian is attested through non ie substrate words and toponyms in Greek

To say Greek and Pelasgian are Similar u need to have both Languages in order to compare them and u don't have the Pelasgian language cuz it is a MYTH.
I never said they were similar


10..... More Crap, oh God, how can u be so sure how can u be so affirmative when the Proto languages don't exist and are dead more than 5000 Years and have never left any written records or anything like that.
Please read books

U clearly have no idea what u talking about, the Proto Languages are dead and were dead even before our Ancestors and it is a WASTE OF TIME talking about them cuz they are dead and no one ever saw them or heard them.
They are not dead, they live through their descending languages

I would believe u if u had some kind of written records from Proto - Semitic Language and Proto- Indo European.
If you dont accept that=>you dont accept indo-european languages model.

11..... that is not even the point, my point was that you talk with so much self confidence that PIE came from Anatolia and actually there are other Hypothesis who seem pretty logical.
Mainstream hypothesis=> urheimat of pih in Anatolia and ie in Balkans/Pontci steppes+kurgan expansions.

12..... Dude Haplogroups have nothing to do with Language and haplogroups are a small drop of the genetic, I am talking about a GENOME WIDE COMPARISON, in Genome wide comparison Indo European speakers in Europe show close genetic affinity.
These affinities are pre ie (remember Hungarians, Basks and Finns...) and as you said genetics has nothing to do with languages when language shifts and mixing are so common.

I will clusted with South Europeans and North Europeans the most in a Genome wide comparison and so will 98% of Albanians.

Haplogroups don't show ur ancestry, they don't show anything.

They retrace folk migrations.


Neolithic Farmers ( E V13 & J2 ) and Paleolithic Hunter Gatherers ( I ) left only their haplogroups and nothing more, their genes are washed up and bred out, we don't look the same like them, we don't speak the same like them and we are not the same as them, haplogroups have literally no meaning when we talking about a genetic similarity between 2 populations. And yes Haplogroups don't have much to do with Languages.

It's the contrary, neolithic farmers R1b (and perhaps R1a) are still here and "washed" bronze age newcomers albeit taking their language (with mixing and creolisation processes)


I am more than sure that the only thing left from those E V13, J2 and I people is their haplogroup and nothing more, just that.
Are you serious?


15...... Yes they could be a coincidence but the chances that those words descend from a common root with Slavic words are 100 times higher than they descend from Proto Semitic root. You trying to tell me that it is more likely that a word in Albanian descends from Proto Altaic or Semitic than Proto Slavic??? do u read what u write ?????? there is a HUGE, GIGANTIC gap between Albanian - Semitic and Albanian - Slavic, the distances between those 2 cases can't be compared and it is more than logical that Albanian - Proto Balto-Slavic is closer than Albanian- Proto Macro KKushtic LOOOOL, that cracks me up.\
It's the contrary, Slavic very lately arose as a written language idem for Albanian, those languages tend to "borrow" from the lingua francas of the time (Greek, Latin, Arabic, Ottoman Turkish, Phoenician etc...)


I am not Anti-Pelasgian and I don't give a damn about them cuz no one has ever proved that they existed and there r no traces left from them.
Pelasgian remains a MYTH.
Not only they were attested in written accounts but they left great cities and a great civilisation.


once more Show me the Pelasgian civilisation??? where are they and were were they, their Alphabet, their stone cravings, their whatnot, just freaking show me something.

THere are more facts and arguments from Neolithic Farmers in Vinca that left some kind of stone Cravings then Pelasgians.

All the pelasgian shit is so suspicious there r a bunch of useless theories and a bunch of contradictions that is why I don't like it.
You could read some books about Pelasgians...

Colin Wilson
07-23-2010, 12:18 PM
Why you cluster Semitic with Altaic, I only said that as Semitic and proto indo-european were inflective languages=>grammatical affinities.
I dont know about Albanian grammar but probably it absorbed some grammatical elements from Ottoman Turkish and other Balkanian languages throughout the Balkan grammatical sprachbund.
Let's end this off topic my friend.

Raven
07-26-2010, 06:32 PM
Moldova - An explanation was proposed by the Romanian historian Bogdan Petriceicu-Hasdeu, who connected the name of the river Moldova with Mulde, a river in Saxony, and Moldau, the German name of the river Vltava in the Czech Republic, and argues that all derive from the Gothic word for "dust" - Mulda.

Ukraine - This one is pretty obvious, "krai" is the Russian word for edge. It refers to Ukraine as being the edge, or border/ frontier of the Slavic world.

Gagauz - A combination of the Turkic words Gok-Oguz. Gok means sky blue, and Oguz were a semi-Mongoloid people who dwelled around the Aral sea and later migrated to Moldova.

The Hypocrite
07-26-2010, 07:17 PM
Since they can't promote the name Columbia again due to similarity with Colombia and America is also the continent, why not promote a name like Vespucia? :)

Vespucian English, Vespucian History X, Vespucians go home... :D

The original name of the original colony was Virginia. But then afterwards only the original settlement kept that name and the English colonies became "the 13 colonies".

I'e no problem with people of the US calling themselves Americans. I used to have more during my teenage years, but now I have less. The first to be independent get dibs on calling themselves Amercians lol.

Colin Wilson
08-03-2010, 11:03 AM
I've found in the lisan al arab book(a very huge dictionnary)a root "alb" which means also "camel's skin whitness" I think it descends from an aa root "alb" (white) from which the names of "Libya" took root.

أَلَبَ إليك القَوْمُ: أَتَوْكَ من كل جانب. وأَلَبْتُ الجيشَ إذا جَمَعْتَه. وتَأَلَّبُوا: تَجَمَّعُوا. والأَلْبُ: الجمع الكثير من الناس. وأَلَبَ الإِبِلَ يَأْلِبُها ويَأْلُبها أَلْباً: جَمَعَها وساقَها سَوْقاً شَديداً. وأَلَبَتْ هي انْساقَتْ وانْضَمَّ بعضُها إلى بعض. أَنشد ابن الأَعرابي:
أَلَمْ تَعْلَمي أَنّ الأَحادِيثَ في غَدٍ، وبعدَ غَدٍ، يَأْلِبْنَ أَلْبَ الطَّـرائدِ
أَي يَنْضَمُّ بعضُها إلى بعض.
التهذيب: الأَلُوبُ: الذي يُسْرِعُ، يقال أَلَبَ يَأْلِبُ ويَأْلُبُ. وأَنشد أَيضاً: يَأْلُبْنَ أَلْبَ الطَّرائدِ، وفسره فقال: أَي يُسْرِعْن. ابن بُزُرْجَ. المِئْلَبُ: السَّرِيعُ، قال العجاج: وإنْ تُناهِبْه تَجِدْه مِنْـهَـبـا في وَعْكةِ الجِدِّ، وحِيناً مِئْلَبَا
والأَلْبُ: الطَرْدُ. وقد أَلَبْتُها أَلْباً، تقدير عَلَبْتُها عَلْباً. وأَلَبَ الحِمارُ طَرِيدَتَه يَأْلِبُها وأَلَّبَها كلاهما: طَرَدَها طَرْداً شَدِيداً.
والتَّأْلَبُ: الشدِيدُ الغَلِيظُ المُجْتَمِعُ من حُمُرِ الوَحْشِ.
والتَأْلَبُ: الوَعِلُ، والأنثى تَأْلَبةٌ، تاؤه زائدة لقولهم أَلَبَ الحِمارُ أُتُنَه. والتَأْلَب، مثال الثَّعْلبِ: شجَر.
وأَلَبَ الشيءُ يأْلِبُ ويَأْلُبُ أَلْباً: تَجَمَّعَ. وقوله: وحَلَّ بِقَلْبي، مِنْ جَوَى الحُبِّ، مِيتةٌ، كما ماتَ مَسْقِيُّ الضَّياحِ على أَلْبِ
لم يفسره ثعلب إلا بقوله: أَلَبَ يَأْلِبُ إذا اجتمع. وتَأَلَّبَ القومُ: تَجَمَّعُوا. وأَلَّبَهُمْ: جَمَّعَهم. وهم عليه أَلْبُ واحد، وإلْبٌ، والأُولى أَعرف، ووَعْلٌ واحِدٌ وصَدْعٌ واحد وضِلَعٌ واحدةٌ أَي مجتمعون عليه بالظلم والعَداوةِ. وفي الحديث: إنّ الناسَ كانوا علينا إلْباً واحِداً. الالب، بالفتح والكسر: القوم يَجْتَمِعُون على عَداوةِ إِنْسانٍ. وتَأَلَّبُوا: تَجَمَّعُوا. قال رؤبة: قد أَصْبَحَ الناسُ عَلَيْنا أَلْبَـا، فالنَّاسُ في جَنْبٍ، وكُنَّا جَنْبا
وقد تَأَلَّبُوا عليه تَأَلُّباً إذا تَضافَروا عليه.
وأَلْبٌ أَلُوبٌ: مُجْتَمِعٌ كثير. قال البُرَيْقُ الهُذَلِيُّ: بِأَلْبٍ أَلُـوبٍ وحَـرَّابةٍ، لَدَى مَتْنِ وازِعِها الأَوْرَمِ
وفي حديث عَبْدِ اللّه بن عَمْرو، رضي اللّه عنهما، حين ذَكَر البَصْرةَ فقال: أَما إِنه لا يُخْرِجُ مِنْها أَهْلَها إلاّ الأُلْبَةُ: هي المَجاعةُ. مأْخوذ من التَّأَلُّبِ التَّجَمُّعِ، كأَنهم يَجْتَمِعُون في المَجاعةِ، ويَخْرُجُون أَرْسالاً. وأَلَّبَ بينهم: أَفْسَدَ. والتَّأْلِيبُ: التَّحْرِيضُ. يقال حَسُودٌ مُؤَلَّبٌ. قال ساعدةُ بن جُؤَيَّةَ الهُذَلِيُّ: بَيْنا هُمُ يَوْماً، هُنالِكَ، راعَهُمْ ضَبْرٌ، لِباسُهُم القَتِيرُ، مُؤَلَّبُ
والضَّبْرُ: الجَماعةُ يَغْزُونَ. والقَتِيرُ: مَسامِيرُ الدِّرْعِ، وأَرادَ بها ههنا الدُّرُوعَ نَفْسَها. وراعَهُم: أَفْزَعَهُم. والأَلْبُ: التَّدْبِيرُ على العَدُوِّ مِن حيث لا يَعْلَمُ. ورِيحٌ أَلُوبٌ: بارِدةٌ تَسْفي التُّراب.
وأَلَبَتِ السَّماءُ تَأْلِبُ، وهي أَلُوبٌ: دامَ مَطَرُها. والأَلْبُ: نَشاطُ السَّاقي. ورجل أَلُوبٌ: سَرِيعُ إخْراج الدَّلو، عن ابن الأَعرابي، وأَنشد: تَبَشَّرِي بِماتِـحٍ أَلُـوبِ، مُطَرِّحٍ لِدَلْوِه، غَضُوبِ
وفي رواية: مُطَرِّحٍ شَنَّتَه غَضُوبِ
والأَلْبُ: العَطَشُ. وأَلَبَ الرَّجلُ: حامَ حولَ الماء، ولم يَقْدِرْ أَن يَصِل إليه، عن الفارسي. أَبو زيد: أَصابَتِ القومَ أُلْبةٌ وجُلْبةٌ أَي مَجاعةٌ شَديدةٌ. والأَلْبُ: مَيْلُ النَّفْسِ إلى الهَوى. ويقال: أَلْبُ فُلانٍ معَ فُلانٍ أَي صَفْوُه مَعَه. والأَلْبُ: ابْتِداءُ بُّرْءِ الدُّمَّل، وأَلِبَ الجُرْحُ أَلَباً وأَلَبَ يَأْلِبُ أَلْباً كلاهما: بَرئ أَعْلاه وأَسْفَلُه نَغِلٌ، فانْتَقَضَ.
وأَوالِبُ الزَّرْعِ والنَّخْلِ: فِراخُه، وقد أَلَبَتْ تَأْلِبُ.
والأَلَبُ: لغة في اليَلَبِ. ابن المظفر: اليَلَبُ والأَلَبُ: البَيْضُ من جُلُود الإبل. وقال بعضهم: هو الفُولاذُ من الحَديدِ.
والإلْبُ: الفِتْرُ، عن ابن جني؛ ما بينَ الإبْهامِ والسَّبَّابةِ.
والإلْبُ: شجرة شاكةٌ كأَنها شجرةُ الأُتْرُجِّ، ومَنابِتها ذُرَى الجِبال، وهي خَبِيثةٌ يؤخَذ خَضْبُها وأَطْرافُ أَفْنانِها، فيُدَقُّ رَطْباً ويُقْشَبُ به اللَّحمُ ويُطْرَح للسباع كُلِّها، فلا يُلْبِثُها إذا أَكَلَتْه، فإن هي شَمَّتْه ولم تأْكُلْه عَمِيَتْ عنه وصَمَّتْ منه.