[Ubirajara]

The people who dominated sub saharan Africa.



1 = 3000 - 1500 BC origin
2 = ca.1500 BC first migrations
2.a = Eastern Bantu, 2.b = Western Bantu
3 = 1000 - 500 BC Urewe nucleus of Eastern Bantu
4 - 7 = southward advance
9 = 500 BC - 0 Congo nucleus
10 = 0 - 1000 AD last phase

"The Bantu expansion was a millennia-long series of migrations of speakers of the original proto-Bantu language group. This group is hypothesized to have originated from modern day Cameroon. A diffusion of language and knowledge spread among neighbouring populations, and a creation of new societal groups involving inter-marriage spread to new areas and communities. The expansion is taken to have begun after the introduction of agriculture, which would indicate a date of ca. 3000–2500 BC for the early expansion within West Africa, followed by first eastwards and southwards migrations beyond West Africa from about 1500 to 1000 BC. Bantu-speakers developed novel methods of agriculture and metalworking which allowed people to colonize new areas with widely varying ecologies in greater densities than hunting and foraging permitted. They pushed out the hunter-forager Khoisan, who formerly inhabited these areas. Meanwhile in Eastern and Southern Africa, Bantu-speakers adopted livestock husbandry from other peoples they encountered, and in turn passed it to hunter-foragers. Herding practices reached the far south several centuries before Bantu-speaking migrants did. Archaeological, linguistic, genetic and environmental evidence all support the conclusion that the Bantu expansion was one of the most significant human migrations and cultural transformations within the past few thousand years".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion

E1b1a (yDNA signature of the males who carried out the expansion)

"Haplogroup E1b1a is the main haplogroup in sub-Saharan Africa, where it reaches frequencies of over 80% in West Africa. It has been hypothesized that E1b1a originated in Northern Africa and then spread to sub-Saharan Africa with the Bantu expansion]. However, Rosa et al. (2007) and others suggest that it likely originated in and expanded from West Africa (i.e., the Sudanese Belt) within the last 20,000 to 30,000 years based on the fact that the frequency and diversity of E1b1a in this region are among the highest found.] E-M2 is considered to be the signature Y-DNA for the Bantu expansion, however, it should be considered the signature y-DNA for the Niger-Congo phylum or language, which means that E1b1a was probably the most common chromosome in West Africa when the Niger-Congo language emerged at least 15,000 YBP(years before present) [...]E1b1a is the single most common Y-chromosome haplogroup among people of Sub-Saharan African descent both inside and outside of Africa. It is observed at frequencies of 58%-60% in African Americans.[2] The E1b1a subclades E1b1a7 and E1b1a8 are widely found throughout sub-saharan Africans. However, according to Karafet, E1b1a9 has been found only in one Gambian. The haplogroups E1b1a2, E1b1a3, E1b1a4, E1b1a5, and E1b1a6 are quite uncommon as well".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E1b1a



The Niger Congo languages

"The Niger-Congo languages constitute one of the world's major language families, and Africa's largest in terms of geographical area, number of speakers, and number of distinct languages. They may constitute the world's largest language family in terms of distinct languages, although this question is complicated by ambiguity about what constitutes a distinct language. Most of the most widely spoken indigenous languages of Subsaharan Africa belong to this group. A common property of many Niger-Congo languages is the use of a noun class system".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_Congo



From the Tischkoff map of African diversity (genetic study), the orange cluster pinpoints it very well:



From the Sarah Tischkoff's study on African diversity.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/data/1172257/DC1/1

[Batayllero]

I guess linking haplogroups with proto-languages is risky, but it's tempting and fascinating.

One thing I don't quite get, for instance, is when it is not 'sequential'. Afaik, E1b1b would be associated with the beginning of Afro-Asiatic languages. But then, it is J2 that is associated with the Arabic expansion. Is it plausible at all because of time difference, or would J2 peoples be speakers of a different language who adopted West Semitic?

[Ubirajara]

Other maps of the Niger Congo languages:

[Ubirajara]

An interesting text about its developments in South Africa:

Although history can be manipulated depending on who is writing it, our genes provide an unbiased record of the history of our country.

The history of the genes tell us that the Khoisan carry genetic signatures which are very close to the original modern human ancestor.

Prof. Soodyall: Ultimately all lines come back with their origins in Africa.
It would seem that the oldest mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosome lineages found in living peoples today have been retained by people we call Khoisan.

Their ancestors moved into Southern Africa at least 100,000 years ago - making them the very first South Africans.

In fact, not only were the Khoisan's ancestors the first South Africans - but they were at the cutting edge of human development anywhere in the world. Nowhere else has anyone found any signs of culture, language and technology dating so far back.

The first signs of art, the first signs of language, the first sign of spirituality are all found in South Africa.

Peter Beaumont - Archaeologist: People sat here and had a good old braai in typical Northern Cape fashion. So you see the tradition of braaivleis is a very old one in Africa.

And about 5,000 generations later, some of the direct descendents of the first South Africans are still living in virtually the same place.

They have the Khoisan L1d mitochondrial DNA signature (currently called L0d).

Many other South Africans - often those calling themselves coloured, carry the genetic signature of the Khoisan.

Dale September [Born in Cape Town]: So I have a few brothers running around in the desert.

Prof. Soodyall: You have a few maternal cousins.

Delia Meyer [Born in Lusaka Zambia]: That's great.

So the Khoisan genetic line was here first and its bearers lived in the region for about 100,000 years.

Two and a half thousand years ago, 500 years before Christ - the Khoi split from the San. Over time, the Khoi became more settled, domesticating sheep and later, cattle, whilst the San remained hunter- gatherers, leading a nomadic lifestyle.

Then, 1500 years ago, new kids on the block arrived ... the Bantu speaking people, originally from West Africa, had been making their way down Africa in search of fresh land for their flourishing population.

McEdward Murimbimbika - Archaeologist: The reasons for the initial movement is debatable, but basically they are linked to population expansion, the need for greener pastures.

One group travelled directly south as far as Namibia while the other migrated across central Africa and down the East African coast to South Africa.

Mc Edward: Their importance was basically the introduction of totally new culture, totally new economy and new technology.

Professor Tom Huffman - Archaeologist: 'they came with cattle, they came with domestic sheep and goats, they came with a knowledge of metal working, they knew how to smelt and forge iron and smelt and make things out of copper - they had all this in West Africa before they came.

Some of these early Bantu-speaking pioneers settled at Mapungubwe near the Limpopo.

Prof. Huffman: This was the first town, it had something like 5 000 people, it was the first capital. There are all sorts of firsts at this place

Baby Jake [born in Soweto]: I grew up in Soweto, I don't know where my ancestors come from.

Irvin Khoza [born in Alexandra]: I was never fortunate to stay on the farms where I would know of my great grandfathers.

The vast majority of South Africans today carry a genetic signature linking them to Bantu Migrations from West Africa - the same signature carried by 70% of all Africans

Prof. Soodyall: So the E lineage is evolving in Africa for at least 45 000 years.

Baby Jake: I want to know where this shortness comes from.

The Bantu speaking people flourished in South Africa, sweeping aside the Khoi-San, and forcing them into less and less hospitable areas.
But the genes suggest that there is more to this story ...

Conscelia [born in Alexandra]: My Dad is Tswana and my mom is half Pedi, half Tswana. I'm mostly Tswana - that's my home language.

Wendy Luhabe [born in Benoni]: I didn't know most of my grandparents.

A lot of Bantu-speaking South Africans carry Khoi-San DNA in their genes often on their maternal sides - evidence that Khoi-San women were assimilated into Bantu-speaking society.

And all these Bantu-speaking people have L1d (currently L0d) or Khoisan mitochondrial DNA ancestry

Wendy: It is a revelation for me, I had absolutely no idea.

Irvin: Yes! I'm from the original people.

Conscelia Madumo: I thought that if there were going to be any surprises that they would probably be from North Africa or Europe but for some reason I never thought of the people from right here in the south.

South Africa had seen sporadic visits from Chinese, Arabic and Indian merchants for over 400 years dating back to 1200AD, but it was only in 1652 that a permanent group of Dutch settlers arrived in the Cape - paving the way for waves of successive European settlement and domination of South Africa.

http://beta.mnet.co.za/carteblanche/...e.aspx?Id=2619

Nelson Mandela is a good example of its developments in South Africa. His mtDNA haplogroup is L0d, which is Khoisan. His yDNA is E1b1a (E-M2), a signature of the "Niger Congo" group (associated with the "Bantu expansion"). A Tischkoff-study like test would be need to establish how much % Khoisan/BantuNigerCongo he is (autosomal). He was born into a Bantu derived tribe, the Xhosa.

Nelson Mandela was found on his maternal mtDNA side to go back to KhoeSan L1d ancestral roots. On Madiba’s paternal side he is E-M2

http://cape-slavery-heritage.iblog.c...-south-africa/

And what about the father of South Africa? What will his DNA reveal?

On his paternal side he is E-M2, the lineage of Bantu speakers which is to be expected.

Prof. Soodyall: [talking to Madiba] Your ancestry, just studying what you got from your maternal side, would suggest an input from Khoisan ancestry.

Mandela is also descended from the first people of South Africa - the Khoisan.

Nelson Mandela [born in Transkei]: Actually people like Harry the Strandloper whose real name was Outarmiyo (sp) he was one of the first freedom fighters to go to Robben Island. I addressed a meeting of coloured intellectuals in Pretoria when I was President. A retired teacher said 'we know why you are so close to the coloured people, because you are a coloured yourself'

http://beta.mnet.co.za/carteblanche/...e.aspx?Id=2619

MtDNA haplogroup L1d is now called L0d.

[Ubirajara]

The 23andme African box. Interesting how the Niger Congo speakers cluster together as opposed to the San, the Pygmy, and the Mozabite.

[pinguin]

The Bantu (Niger-Congo) expansion was a tragedy to the Khoisan and Pigmey peoples of southern Africa. It was a movement of people that destroyed the native cultures, in a similar fashion as Europeans expanded to the Americas or Chinese pushed the early inhabitants of East Asia (Austronesians) down south and to the Pacific.

[OSS 117]

^^The same is true for the majority of agricultural expansions.

[Ponto]

Originally Posted by Batayllero

I guess linking haplogroups with proto-languages is risky, but it's tempting and fascinating.

One thing I don't quite get, for instance, is when it is not 'sequential'. Afaik, E1b1b would be associated with the beginning of Afro-Asiatic languages. But then, it is J2 that is associated with the Arabic expansion. Is it plausible at all because of time difference, or would J2 peoples be speakers of a different language who adopted West Semitic?

So what is your opinion regarding J2?

I agree with you first statement. Unless there are other proofs, ancient dna results, archaeological results and linkages with linguistics, I do consider any link of language with haplogroups very speculative and at the moment no one can prove anything.

Polako accepts I.E languages originated in Europe, he says Ukraine and Russia. I don't, and anyway when did Ukraine and Russia become Europe? At what date? Similarly I don't care for the linkage of J1 with Semitic languages. I know it works with the religious folk, the Bible, Torah, Quran believers, but other than that, nothing. The truth probably is that E1b1b, J2, J1, G and probably other haplogroups developed in the Northern Middle East, and the languages those men spoke then could all be extinct. Semitic languages may have developed in the Syria region about 6,000 years ago and traveled by migration events to those parts of the world where those languages are common, as Arabic is now common in Africa where it did not exist 2,000 years ago.

With the Bantus, yes E1b1a was common among them when they went traipsing around Africa but where did the haplogroup originate? It most likely did not develop among those first Bantu speakers they just spread it after it became common among them.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Ponto

Polako accepts I.E languages originated in Europe, he says Ukraine and Russia.

Not true. Polako is actually very against a IE homeland in Ukraine & southern Russia. He believes the I-E homeland is in "central-eastern Europe", which is his way of saying Poland.

[Ponto]

This point still stands: I guess linking haplogroups with proto-languages is risky, but it's tempting and fascinating.

It certainly provides fora like this endless discussions on the origins, phenotypes, haplogroups and languages of long dead people. All without any shred of actual proof.

The Bantu speaking expansion in Africa was historically recent, so the association of language and haplogroup with that expansion is reasonable but my question stands. When did the Bantu speakers acquire this haplogroup and where did the haplogroup originate? Even the question about the origins of the Bantu languages hasn't been answered. The language group could have arisen in another part of Africa in another African people. All people are doing is assuming what exists always existed.